Sept. 29, 2025

Unlearning Your Leadership Style: Laissez-Faire

Unlearning Your Leadership Style: Laissez-Faire

Send us a text We dig into laissez-faire leadership with clear eyes—what it is, what it isn’t, when it helps people soar, and when silence looks like neglect. We share wins, missteps, and the structures that make autonomy safe, from trust and expectations to accountability and pivot points. • defining laissez-faire leadership and clearing myths • team traits that enable high autonomy • trust, clarity, and narrative risk in low-touch environments • examples of growth under “thrown in” moments...

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon

Send us a text

We dig into laissez-faire leadership with clear eyes—what it is, what it isn’t, when it helps people soar, and when silence looks like neglect. We share wins, missteps, and the structures that make autonomy safe, from trust and expectations to accountability and pivot points.

• defining laissez-faire leadership and clearing myths
• team traits that enable high autonomy
• trust, clarity, and narrative risk in low-touch environments
• examples of growth under “thrown in” moments
• when to step in, reframe, and reset cadence
• accountability and taking public responsibility
• structure first, autonomy second as a rule
• coaching capacity with empathy and standards
• adapting leadership style to people and season
• building systems that survive talent changes

We need you to like, share, and subscribe
Let us know what you’re thinking
Join the community and be part of this growing, unlearning community

00:00 - Warm-up, Chemistry, and Rest

05:29 - Introducing Laissez-Faire Leadership

08:40 - What It Is—and Isn’t

12:30 - Team Traits That Make It Work

17:05 - Early-Career Misreads and Growth

22:00 - Trust, Clarity, and Expectations

27:00 - Motivation Check: Intent vs Avoidance

32:00 - When to Step In and Pivot

38:00 - Accountability and Taking the Hits

43:00 - Structure First, Autonomy Second

48:00 - Coaching, Empathy, and Capacity

53:00 - Seasonality of Style and Scale

WEBVTT

00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:09.199
Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to the URLt podcast.

00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:11.759
I'm your host, Abigail, a K A R A.

00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:13.199
What's up, friends?

00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:14.400
It's your girl Jaquita.

00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:22.559
And this is indeed the podcast that is helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you, yes, you, can experience more freedom.

00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:27.039
And here we are, once again, um one more time.

00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:40.000
One more time in the house of the unlearnt to my lord, my lord, talk your talk, Ruth Abigail.

00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:40.960
Talk your talk.

00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:45.200
My Lord to discuss leadership styles.

00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:48.240
And I think we've been, it's been, you know, this is really funny recently.

00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:54.960
Uh Quinty, you said that somebody that you know described our podcast as intellectual, which I wasn't sure that I agree with.

00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.520
And then I was like, well, maybe I don't know.

00:00:57.759 --> 00:00:58.159
A little bit.

00:00:58.240 --> 00:00:59.359
I can see it a little bit.

00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:02.479
You know, we try to do, we try to get the people a little bit of both.

00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:07.359
You know, we're giving you all this is, but Loki, this is our real dynamic.

00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:12.239
Like what you guys see on the podcast, this is me and Ruth Abigail.

00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:15.439
We have decided to make our friendship public.

00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:16.000
Public.

00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:16.400
Yeah.

00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:16.959
Yeah.

00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:17.920
That's facts.

00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.040
And I really feel like, you know, we've been doing this.

00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:25.040
You know, like this is how we have always talked.

00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:26.799
Like, yeah, it's true.

00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:27.760
So I don't know.

00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:32.400
I guess we we most of our conversations lean in this type of direction.

00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.680
Like, we're not, we're not really like, you know, as you would say, Kikiers.

00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:39.760
Well, I'm not.

00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:42.400
Me and Joy can Kiki.

00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:43.040
Yeah, yeah.

00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:46.400
Me and Joy, we can get a good little Kiki in.

00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:46.640
Yeah.

00:01:46.879 --> 00:01:50.319
Because Abigail, first of all, Ruth Abigail will ruin a whole Kiki.

00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.079
You'll be like, girl, guess what happened?

00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.359
Ruth be like, that doesn't make any sense.

00:01:57.920 --> 00:01:59.760
And I don't agree with that.

00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.159
And actually, that's really, that's really not the way you should do it.

00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:07.200
What you actually should do is this, this, and that.

00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:09.360
And the Kiki is just done.

00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:10.080
It's over.

00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:10.800
You know.

00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:12.159
It's not my style.

00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:13.039
Not my style.

00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:13.599
Not what I do.

00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:14.479
No, no, no.

00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.000
Ruth, she's not a kikier, but but we love her still, people.

00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:18.479
We love her.

00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:19.599
Thank you for the butt.

00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:20.240
You know what I'm saying?

00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:25.120
That's obviously like when you say that, it's like the friendship lives right there.

00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:27.520
It lives right there in the in-between.

00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:28.080
Okay.

00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:30.719
Dang, golly.

00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:37.680
No, but you know, again, people who make you better are not going to be the same as you.

00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:43.439
You know, like, and you have to, and I think we we brighten up that side of each other's lives.

00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:52.800
Like, you know, like if there was a light bulb on my intellectual side, like Ruth Abigail comes and that side starts blinking and flittering and gets all excited.

00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:56.319
Because that's that's where we light up each other's lives.

00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:59.759
And you gotta know where you're that sucks.

00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:02.400
I wasn't even trying to be sentimental.

00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.199
But I'm glad you received it as such.

00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:12.879
Uh, but you got you have to know, you have to know where people are fitting in your life.

00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:26.719
Because I just watched this one uh podcast that Ruth Abigail sent me because uh, you know, we're trying to, you know, make sure we're broadening our horizons so we can continue to broaden the scope of the podcast.

00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:27.439
Absolutely.

00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:35.520
Um, but one of the things that she talked about um that was mentioned was like the seven like rest styles.

00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:45.280
Like the seven, yes, and I because I was like, Lord, and I've been talking to some friends, and I'm like, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm getting what I need right now.

00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:51.120
You know, like you know, I'm taking a little hiatus from classes, but I don't feel like I'm getting what I need.

00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:57.439
And you and you know, there's different styles of rest and different ways to find peace.

00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:04.240
And, you know, for your for your brain and your mind and your spirit and your emotions to settle.

00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:10.639
And I think it's important that you know who around you is gonna contribute to what levels of rest.

00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:18.160
If you need spiritual rest, you're it's not gonna be good for you to go to people who are who are constantly pulling on that.

00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:19.519
Not there's a difference.

00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:23.040
Okay, I'm sorry, this ain't even the the podcast topic for this.

00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:24.240
This ain't in your notes.

00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:25.680
This ain't in my notes.

00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:26.879
This ain't in my notes.

00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.120
You get this, you get this for free.

00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:29.680
Okay.

00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:38.000
There is a difference between someone contributing and between and someone pulling, right?

00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:47.120
If you are spiritually drained, but you have people in your life who like, I need spiritual insight and depth and growth, right?

00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:59.199
And and you're having these conversations that could maybe from another person seem spiritually uplifting, but because that person is seeking, it's it's pulling, that's draining.

00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:12.959
And you need to know, you need to know how people are adding, are uh are supporting or are pulling, or you need to you need to be aware of what's happening in your relationships so that you can get real rest.

00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:18.160
Not not that we putting anybody to the side, but you need to know, oh, I need rest in this area.

00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:20.800
And this ain't this ain't the place I'm gonna be able to get.

00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.680
My light bulb is not is did not turn on here.

00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:24.160
Yeah.

00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:28.319
Um, which leads us to what we're gonna talk about today, okay?

00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:30.800
We are talking about the law.

00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.800
I thought Ruth Abigail was gonna do it, but she just jumped in a little ass.

00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:36.319
I was literally about to do it.

00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:37.199
No, go ahead.

00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:37.759
I'm sorry.

00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:51.199
Okay, well, you know, today I think the leadership style that we're talking about really kind of links, like kind of segues really well with the with this current conversation, is we are talking about the laissez faire leadership.

00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:53.759
Okay, laissez faire.

00:05:54.000 --> 00:06:00.399
And laissez faire literally means, like translates to let do or leave alone.

00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:01.279
Right.

00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:07.759
And so like it is a leadership style that has minimal intervention.

00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:12.879
Um, it is it is not, this is not a helicoptering leadership style, right?

00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:18.560
This is a stand back and watch everything work together, leadership style.

00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:23.600
So it's it's not hands-on, it's not gonna be as involved.

00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:29.759
Um, and I think it's probably the leadership style that because of that can be the most misunderstood.

00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:35.199
Whatever I used to think about it, I used to lazy is what I would think.

00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:40.639
Yeah, I mean, it it really does like it's it it sounds like that.

00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:40.959
Yeah.

00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:41.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:42.800
But it's really not at all.

00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:44.720
No, it's not at all.

00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:45.600
It's not at all.

00:06:45.759 --> 00:07:06.879
Um, I think that it is a leadership style that in some regards can be a little bit of a um of a uh mile marker in your own leadership, because when you get to a point where this style works well, there's something that's been done to get there.

00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:22.160
Because in order for um in order for this style to to work well, you have to have a team of people who can operate at a level that doesn't require you to be in the midst of things, right?

00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:22.879
Yeah, yeah.

00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:32.079
Um, whether that is and that and and and joy producer joy and queen to help me with this, because I they kind of turn me around a little bit on some of the requirements for this.

00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:40.720
And so um, I think it's it's you gotta have determined people, people who are self-starters, people who want to grow.

00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:43.920
Like you don't need to, they don't need motivation, right?

00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:57.040
Yeah, um, and then autonomous, yeah, but autonomous in the sense of like their autonomy doesn't lead to them just doing their own thing, it it leads to them doing what's necessary.

00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:58.079
Yes, right.

00:07:58.800 --> 00:07:59.600
Humble.

00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:00.399
Yes.

00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:17.920
There's a sense of humility that even though you're not always over me, like if you have a laissez faire leader, even though you're not always over me, I don't have some secret plot to build something bigger than the vision of the team.

00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:18.480
Right?

00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:22.319
Like I'm I'm really trying to contribute to what we have here.

00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:22.959
Right, right.

00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.959
And um, ooh, yeah, I I have examples, but I want you to go on.

00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:30.639
Well, no, I mean I think I think you should you should talk about your examples, but hold on.

00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:35.279
Before we do that, let's like describe it real quick, just so people like a full version of it.

00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:42.879
So it's hands off where the leader provides minimal direction, provides minimal, it's still some you still provide direction.

00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:43.759
It's just minimal.

00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:54.559
Um, and allows team members or employees at high degrees of atom, um uh employees a high degree of autonomy, uh, decision making and task execution, right?

00:08:54.960 --> 00:09:00.080
So it's not that you're you're not lazy, you're not paying, you're not not paying attention, right?

00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.960
You just you give minimal direction and you take your hands off and you go let them do things, right?

00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:15.600
You go watch them work and then be available when it's when you need to be available, but there's no need for you to be proactively available, yeah, which I have done in the past, and we can talk about that later.

00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:23.200
Um so low direct supervision, high autonomy, you're supportive, right?

00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:24.480
Not directive.

00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:34.159
Um, it's and it's used best with skilled teams, and I'll I'll add a an asterisk to that skilled and or determined uh self-starting teams.

00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:42.559
So even if your team is not highly skilled, if they are determined and self-starters, you can get away with it.

00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:54.159
I think all the three of us who were kind of doing our pre-conversation all kind of noted that we have had at some points um laissez faire leadership at times where we weren't highly skilled at our jobs.

00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:54.799
Oh yeah.

00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:05.759
Um and so it's like we came in kind of green at what we're doing, but there wasn't, there was still trust because of our kind of determined nature, right?

00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:10.799
Our self-starting um character, we're able to to just do things.

00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:28.080
Yeah, you know, and I think it's interesting because I even as a person that has had laissez-faire leadership, like I find myself having grown in being able to be under that leadership style.

00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:34.720
Um, because when I first started kind of in student affairs, campus life, like I was like, yo, where my leader at?

00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:35.840
Like, where they at?

00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:38.080
Like, don't nobody show up.

00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:42.240
Ain't nobody, nobody told me how to do anything.

00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:42.720
Yeah.

00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:45.039
I created a vision and a plan.

00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:47.279
They were like, that's fantastic.

00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:56.639
After they realized that I was going to create vision and plan that I was gonna move forward with, I never had not one.

00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:58.559
Hear me, not one.

00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.879
One-on-one meeting, no supervisory check-in.

00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:06.320
The only meetings I had were, they used to call me JQ.

00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:08.639
Only meetings I had was JQ, JQ.

00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:10.799
We want you to come in, make us a video.

00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:18.960
Okay, we want you to get the team, you know, now they got ideas of what they want to do, but not like, hey, how can I support you?

00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:20.000
What do you need?

00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:20.320
Sure.

00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:32.240
You know, and so like at that time when I was kind of, you know, just getting started in in this particular field, I was like, I was kind of like, so it's just me against the world.

00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:41.120
And so me and my team became something separate than the larger vision of the division, honestly.

00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:44.320
Like, we we were like, we we over here doing our thing.

00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:45.840
We don't know what everybody else is doing.

00:11:45.919 --> 00:12:04.000
We over here doing our thing, we're gonna make it amazing, which I did, but I think I've grown now because I would say that I've been under, since then, I've been other under other leadership styles that can other leaders who have that laissez faire leadership style.

00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:15.679
And I think that I'm I I recognize their leadership style is not licensed for me to have the takeover spirit or for me to build something that's bigger than, you know.

00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:19.600
I'm sorry, I just heard I just saw David Ruffin and Otis, you know.

00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:21.440
Nobody's bigger than the group.

00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.120
Ain't nobody came to see you, Otis.

00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.519
Okay, because that's exactly how I felt back in the day.

00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.320
I was David Ruffin, okay?

00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:34.000
And they were ain't nobody come to see the rest of y'all.

00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:34.720
Okay.

00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:50.639
I'm I'm a showstopper, you know, but I've had to learn, and I think something that is so needed, you know, when we're talking about the people who are working under these kind of laissez-faire leaders, where there's really not always a lot of oversight.

00:12:50.879 --> 00:13:01.200
High level of trust, low level of supervision, low level of, and I don't think that there's necessarily a low level of support.

00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:04.159
You just have to recognize how support is being given.

00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.879
It may not be in the way that you expect.

00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:12.240
Sometimes they out there, you know, they out there and they're they're your biggest advocate.

00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:13.519
They're talking you up.

00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:29.120
They're the reason you think, you think you're making progress because of your effort, but your laissez-faire leader might be a might be above you, creating avenues and pathways and and and opportunities for you.

00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:30.879
And that's why you're succeeding.

00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:32.960
But you don't see what they're doing.

00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:33.279
Yeah.

00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:51.679
And I think um, I think that that's something that I've learned, like when I look back on my career, that I've had to grow as a person that submits to leadership, um, and not submits to the leaders that I like their style, but submit to understand that that they might be covering me in a different way.

00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:53.360
I think it's a great point.

00:13:53.600 --> 00:14:04.960
Um so, all right, so story I had when I first got here to Memphis, I was working for organization, and I um I'd never done what they are at.

00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:22.399
They I was hired to do a mentoring program, but we didn't have, we had just started uh doing what we are, we just we had just started in the neighborhood and we didn't have a building yet, and so we were just starting programming, and so I didn't have any kids to do the mentoring program with.

00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:26.080
And so my first year was really about outreach, which I did not know coming in there.

00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:27.440
I didn't even really understand what it was.

00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:29.440
I'd never done it before, all this stuff.

00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:37.759
So my boss at the time, he uh two very clear examples of laissez-faire leadership that were great because he understood who I was.

00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:42.000
I didn't need him to to do give me much.

00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:51.440
But um, so I think like we walked into the I walked into the middle school cafeteria with middle school students I did not know, just like seventh graders.

00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.840
And he walked me through the school and he was going around introducing himself to all these kids.

00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.639
He's very life of the party, very charismatic guy.

00:14:58.720 --> 00:14:59.679
He's been doing this forever.

00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:04.240
And I'm sitting here like, and we did it, and I was like, I know, I don't know how to do that.

00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.480
And then when we left, he was like, All right, you got it.

00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.600
This was like in the first couple weeks.

00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:13.759
I said, God, what?

00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:18.080
So I like avoided it for a while till I had to do it.

00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:19.279
But he was just like, You got it.

00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:26.799
And then it's the second time he said that we had to put on a program for the middle school, for the for the um both grade levels.

00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:33.519
We did it so we were the second site, we had a first site, and we wanted to show them kind of what we were coming in to some of the things we were gonna do.

00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:43.200
So we did what we call club, and so it was basically like it's a whole bunch of games and hype moments, and we, you know, maybe have a couple of songs, and you give a little inspirational message.

00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:50.960
So um, myself and my team member at the time, who quite frankly was a pretty horrible team member, he he ended up getting fired before his 90 days.

00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:52.480
But um Oh Lord.

00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:53.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:54.000
He was not good.

00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.360
So, but but he he didn't show, he didn't even show up to this, right?

00:15:57.440 --> 00:15:58.159
We had planned it.

00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.399
He was supposed to be the hype person, I was supposed to get a message.

00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:02.000
He didn't show up.

00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:08.240
And so my boss came and I told him, I was like, hey, homeboy, is it coming?

00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:10.240
Talk about he has a migraine, he can't make it.

00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:15.120
Okay, so um, so then dude, so he was like, Okay, I'm on my way.

00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:21.200
So my boss comes up and we're in the back, and they there's like a hundred something seventh graders in the room.

00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:23.440
Mind you, I'd never done this before.

00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:30.559
I had seen this done one time at the at the at the the center we were at for their kids after school.

00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.320
I seen it done one time.

00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.799
We did it, or they came in, my boss were in the back.

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:39.120
We were about to get started.

00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:40.720
Are you good?

00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:42.879
What?

00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.679
And this man left gone.

00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.960
Left.

00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:55.120
So I had to go up into the stage and I had to be the hype person, and that is so not who I was.

00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:59.279
Now I I mean I learned how to do it, but I'm like, I'm not very cool.

00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.919
I'm in an environment that I'm not like I don't do this, like this isn't what I do.

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.119
This is not what you hire me to do.

00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:08.160
I want that's not and so I had to tell ask one of the coaches.

00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:12.240
I said, Hey, um, can you help me hype up this crowd?

00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:12.799
Like, help me.

00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.119
I know he was like, Oh, yeah, no problem, no problem, no problem.

00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:17.119
So we did it, and it was fine.

00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:21.440
But but I he he understood who he had on his team.

00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:27.200
He understood who I was as a just as a worker, and I he knew I wasn't gonna let the thing fail.

00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:31.759
We were going to do this, and it was gonna be as best as I could make it, right?

00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:36.400
Now he might have had other things to do, or he might have just did that on purpose just to throw me in the fire.

00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:37.599
I don't know, right?

00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:38.559
I have never asked him.

00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:43.119
Lise fair leaders love a fire, love a throw you in the pool moment.

00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:51.200
But it worked, and I think like that to to one of the things that Lise Fair leadership can do, I think you mentioned this.

00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:54.319
I can't did you just say this on the recording or just say it before?

00:17:54.559 --> 00:18:06.000
The growth of somebody under Lise Fair leadership can be very exponential because you you have to perform right in in areas where you don't have as much supervision.

00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:24.640
So if you have the the um the the kind of substarter mentality and you have the integrity of a hard worker and you know you're gonna do well regardless of, you know, you you actually end up growing under this kind of leadership or can because you have to figure things out on your own.

00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:30.640
And you learn things that you probably wouldn't have learned if you had to, if you were kind of given the steps along the way.

00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:31.279
Yeah.

00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:41.599
I also think one of the uh strengths of Lazé Fair leadership is that they really believe in the gifts and talents of other people.

00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:48.079
Like, you know, like like your boss believed in your ability to pull off a good show.

00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:54.720
And you know, not just because, like, oh yeah, she's a hard worker, but because no, she's gifted enough to do this.

00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:55.039
Right.

00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:04.160
And she might not, and his thought probably was she may not do it the way that I would do it, but she's gonna do it in a way that's gonna be effective.

00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:04.799
Correct.

00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:24.400
And I think that trait is something that kind of stands very tall with Lase Fair leadership uh versus other leadership styles, where they might believe in you, but they're also like, you know, but you need some fine tuning, you need some this it.

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.799
I think that Lase Fair leadership says, you don't need me.

00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:30.559
You know what I'm saying?

00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:39.039
Like, like you don't need me to be great, you don't need me to do a good job, you don't need me to pull, to pull things off.

00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:44.160
You have what it takes, and that can feel very empowering.

00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:48.400
It can like, you know, although I felt a little abandoned at times.

00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:49.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.039
I also felt very empowered that everyone believed in me.

00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:58.240
Like nobody, nobody ever thought, no, she's gonna be able to do that right there.

00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:58.480
Right.

00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:01.200
Everybody was like, oh no, Queen owned it, good.

00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:10.000
You know, and but I will say, as a person that has worked under that type of leadership before, like, yes, like you do feel really empowered.

00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.759
Like you like, oh, I can kill this, I can do this, oh I can do that.

00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:20.400
You you start um you start uh uh uh sacrificing for the team.

00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:36.960
You know, you you don't, and I think, I think going back to our birth order conversation, I really feel like as an older child, older daughter, underneath Lase Faire leadership, my thought always goes to somebody else may need them more than me.

00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:42.000
Or something that they're doing might be more important than what I need.

00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:42.559
Right?

00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:52.960
And so I think as a laissez faire leader, you know, you have to figure out and you have to be mindful of when it's time for you to step in.

00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:53.440
Yeah.

00:20:53.759 --> 00:21:03.759
Or else your people will, you know, eventually my thought process is gonna go from, okay, I take one for the team, I take one for the team, to I'm ignored.

00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:09.119
I'm not supported in the way that other people might feel like they are.

00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:10.799
I don't get what I need.

00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:29.920
You know, and then laissez faire leadership, I think, which this might be a separate point, there's such a lack of communication there because you may not be ignoring me, but because you're not communicating what you are doing, I get to build my own narrative.

00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:34.799
And this is how you get narratives of, oh, so you ignore me because I'm black.

00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:35.680
Yeah.

00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:36.559
Is it?

00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.319
Is that how we get narratives like that?

00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:39.680
Sometimes we do.

00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:40.640
Interesting.

00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:42.480
I didn't think you were gonna go there.

00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:44.319
I just I didn't see it.

00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:45.839
But I'll make it, but it's okay.

00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:47.680
But I'm gonna tell you, I can't, yeah.

00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:55.839
I I I work at and have always worked at, well, not Greenville Tech, but mostly have worked at PWIs.

00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:56.400
Yeah.

00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:13.759
And I think as a person of color in those spaces, when things happen, and I also think, I mean, this is again a separate conversation, but when you are a person of color in those spaces, you are hyper-aware of your difference.

00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:23.839
You know, like, and and again, when we're not having communication, I'm gonna build a narrative that may not at all be your intent.

00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:26.319
I think is the is the point I'm trying to make.

00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:37.279
Whether it's about color, whether it's about, you know, how I'm being perceived in that space, or it could be, oh, you, you know, you're ignoring me because you don't like me.

00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:37.759
Yeah.

00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.680
You know, like they don't, you know what I'm saying?

00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:44.960
You build a narrative, and that narrative becomes damaging to the team.

00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:51.200
And what's even more damaging is that that leader does not know what your narrative is.

00:22:51.599 --> 00:23:00.079
And I have been in too many situations where the leader is oblivious to what everyone really thinks about them.

00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:00.880
Yeah.

00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:04.000
Um I I probably have been the leader.

00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:04.480
Yeah.

00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:10.160
You know, where I didn't, I was not aware of what people how people really felt.

00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:19.759
And I feel like this leadership style, maybe more than some other ones, gets caught in that trap a lot because there's not as much communication.

00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:23.200
And that's a great, I think that's a really interesting point.

00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:33.519
Um, you can kind of get, I know for me, when I have leaned into this style, because I'm still a I'm a worker, like I like to work.

00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:39.359
I'm a three on the Enneagram, I like to achieve things, all of that.

00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:45.440
So for me, and this I don't think is a healthy way to go, and I've done this.

00:23:45.519 --> 00:24:08.640
It's like this style works for me because then I can focus on what I want to focus on, and I can focus on kind of the things that I really want to lean into personally for my own like, you know, just just achieving whatever I'm gonna try to achieve within the context of the role, but like I get to to do that as opposed to being overseeing what other people are doing.

00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:17.839
Um, I don't think it's a good, I don't think that that's a good way to think about this leadership style, but I know for me and my personality, that's one of the reasons I've leaned into it.

00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:19.680
And I've leaned into it at the wrong time.

00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.559
And then I I've missed opportunities to lean into it.

00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:52.160
And so I think you you you do have to be very hyper-aware and uh of of the situation you're in, and to your point, the communication, not just not just communication as far as like letting people kind of know where you what you're doing, what you're thinking, what's going on, but also the communication around expectations that you have as a leader so that you can have that level of trust with a team who is moving without real supervision.

00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:58.720
Because without that level of trust, this this particular style becomes very dangerous.

00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.119
You you can't you can't you don't you can't have this style without trust.

00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:25.440
And so I think my mistake has been um trying to achieve this style with low levels of trust um and trying to achieve this style with low level of clarity of expectation, um, which leads to low levels of trust because then my expectations aren't met, and then I don't think you can do what you need to do.

00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.519
So now I'm gonna be less I'm gonna be more hands-on where you don't need me to be.

00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.839
Really, what you needed was clarity of expectations.

00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:32.160
Yeah.

00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:36.079
And as a as a new leader in that role, I didn't know what those were.

00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:48.400
And so what I what I found myself doing was leaning into a style that they really didn't need because I was unclear about what I needed from them and I didn't know how to communicate it.

00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:56.480
Um, and it was it was more and it felt like I didn't trust them, which they had, which they said to me pretty explicitly, like, you don't trust us.

00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:57.759
And I was like, what are you talking about?

00:25:57.920 --> 00:25:58.880
Of course I trust you.

00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:02.559
Like, I'll be here alive, but but I be here, you know what I'm saying?

00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:10.960
I really wasn't always physically present, but it was always a chance that I would pop up because I just wanted to, I didn't try if I'm being honest, I didn't.

00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:18.079
Like I wasn't sure, you know, are things gonna start on time, or things are we have the right people in the room, uh, you know, I all this stuff, you know, just stuff.

00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:21.599
And there was no reason for that, but that's how it was functioning.

00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:31.680
And so this this style became it was needed, but I couldn't do it because I had a low level of trust, but that's because I I had not set clear expectations.

00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:41.200
And then on the other hand, I've also been in situations where my capacity has needed this leadership style.

00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:49.920
I need to be this kind of leader, but the team that I have isn't necessarily totally ready for that.

00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:50.640
Yeah.

00:26:50.880 --> 00:27:07.440
And so, you know, so it's it you just you just have to be very hyper, hyper aware of the situation you're in and making sure that that communication is clear and making sure you you have the the right motivation for moving into this style.

00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.519
Like, um, and I think all three of those things I have gotten, I have gotten wrong.

00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:12.799
Hold on, but for sure.

00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:33.759
I don't think that we can skip past motivation because I think if your motivation, like how you were talking, like, man, you know, this leadership style allows me basically to do what I want to do, you know, and and you know, the team can figure out their part and and I can do what I want to do.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.759
Like your motivation for having this leadership style is everything.

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:48.559
It is you are not gonna be effective as this type of leader if you do not examine your intentions and motives behind the style.

00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.480
It has to be purposeful.

00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:50.880
Yeah.

00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:51.279
Right?

00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:59.519
If you are doing this haphazardly, or if you just kind of fell into a laissez faire leadership style, I also think you have to be mindful.

00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.960
Like, are you laissez faire because you don't know what to do?

00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:05.119
Also, listen, you know what I'm saying?

00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:09.039
Are you like, hey, I'm hands off because I don't know how to lead?

00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:09.519
Yes.

00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:09.920
Right?

00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:18.880
And if it is if you got, if you invested more into your own development and growth, would your leadership style look a little different?

00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:19.279
Right.

00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:19.759
Right?

00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:32.079
Because I think there is nothing wrong with the laissez faire leadership style, but the whole idea of let do leave alone only works if you are intentionally doing it.

00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:32.480
Yeah.

00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:40.319
Not if you're like, I'm scared to lead, I'm scared to take the reins, I'm scared to be an authority.

00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:48.880
Because if you are coming from the mindset of this leadership style is best for my team right now, right?

00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:57.279
If at any point it was not what was best, you would step up and you would know your, you would know how to intervene.

00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:57.599
Right.

00:28:57.759 --> 00:28:58.000
Right?

00:28:58.079 --> 00:28:59.839
You would say, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:02.640
We got off track somewhere, everybody meet in my office.

00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:20.240
I when I found myself, because I don't, I would not say that I have a completely laissez-faire leadership style, but I will say that once that, once that train is rolling, yeah, once all the gears are oiled up and everybody's good to go, I I fall back.

00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:20.799
All right.

00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:24.799
I'm not, I'm not helicoptering, I'm not over-monitoring.

00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.519
I'm here to encourage, to uplift.

00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:38.799
Now, when I think about that, I'm like, okay, now I can do what I really want to do, which is, you know, help to build your confidence, help to strengthen you to become, you know, for your next thing.

00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.359
And I don't have to worry about this thing we we're working on right now.

00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:42.400
Because you got that.

00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:46.160
Like you can do all the projects and all the things and all the this and all the that.

00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:47.440
I ain't gotta focus on that.

00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:48.240
And I'm grateful.

00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:48.720
Yeah.

00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:49.839
You know what I'm saying?

00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:53.920
So I can see how really I'm transformational, but we ain't there yet.

00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:59.839
I can see how it can get, it can look very laissez faire, but you gotta know your intervention.

00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:00.720
Points.

00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:06.640
So for a while, I had a team where I was like, We are well own machine, baby.

00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:08.400
Everybody got their things.

00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:09.599
You know what I'm saying?

00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:11.839
Until somebody didn't have their thing.

00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:13.759
And then somebody else didn't have it.

00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:15.359
And now somebody else ain't got it.

00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:16.640
And so you know what I did?

00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:20.799
I said, all right, we're doing team meetings every two weeks.

00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:21.599
All right.

00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:23.920
I'm restructuring the one-on-ones.

00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:29.759
We're going to have this is how we're going to do our one-on-one meetings to make sure everybody's getting what they need.

00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.480
I'm stepping back in to walk with you guys a little bit more.

00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:36.799
You have to be able to pivot.

00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:46.000
And I think that that is the high point of every conversation that we've had so far about each of these leadership styles.

00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:49.680
None of them are so good that you can be that all the time.

00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:50.240
All the time.

00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:50.720
You can't.

00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:51.279
You can't.

00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:51.839
You can't.

00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:52.160
You can't.

00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.559
None of these leadership leadership styles are the one.

00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:57.359
Right.

00:30:57.599 --> 00:30:59.440
I you can ask my team.

00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.920
If you ask my former team right now, what was Jakuita's leadership style?

00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:06.319
They would say transformational leadership.

00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:07.759
Because I told them that.

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:16.160
I was like, hey, I want to be honest and up front with you all about who I am, what my true motive as your leader is, right?

00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:22.960
I don't want you to, I don't want you to feel like, you know, you got snuck up on and Jakuita trying to be transformational.

00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:24.720
No, no, no, no.

00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:25.759
I was very clear.

00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:32.400
You know, I told you up front, but I hope that they would also be able to say that I was able to pivot, right?

00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:45.440
You have to know who you are, but you have to continuously, as a leader, you have to continuously be adding to your toolkit and learning about what another approach may look like.

00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:45.839
Right.

00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:53.039
And how, and it doesn't, I didn't, I never, not one time, one thing I am gonna be is authentic.

00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:59.039
I did not have to become someone else to employ a different leadership style.

00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:00.720
I did it my way.

00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:01.119
Yeah.

00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:01.519
Right.

00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:08.400
So if I needed to be more authoritative or if I needed to be more uh uh what's the other one we've done so far?

00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:08.960
Democratic.

00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:09.839
Democratic.

00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:20.559
If I needed to step into one of those leadership styles, I could do that knowing that at the end of the day, I'm gonna get us back to transformation because that's who I am.

00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:24.960
You know, and so you have to, it's okay to pivot, right?

00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:35.039
And don't, and I think a lot of times, if you I feel like the Lase Fair leadership style is one that people can also get really stuck on.

00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.759
Like, no, you know, I I let my team.

00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:39.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:44.880
You know, I don't I don't have to do all that interference stuff because they got it.

00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.440
And even if they ain't got it, they gonna get it.

00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:49.680
And they don't, I don't have to do that.

00:32:49.839 --> 00:33:02.000
And you can get stuck like that, but then I just think it's important for every leader to have a real understanding of what the people under you really think about your leadership.

00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.720
You need to do a 360 evaluation.

00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:05.759
You really do.

00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:07.039
Yeah, you really do.

00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.160
You don't get to be a leader and not be evaluated.

00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:10.720
Yeah.

00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:13.920
You don't get to be a leader and not hear from your people.

00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:16.400
And you probably won't probably won't like it.

00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:17.200
Some of it.

00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.160
You won't.

00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:19.039
You won't like it.

00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:19.440
You won't.

00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:27.200
But it'll make you better because you won't know the the impact of your leadership, no matter what style it is, until somebody tells you.

00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.480
And then you can then you can take the steps to do what you need to do.

00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:37.039
You also, I think it also gives you an opportunity to see where your team really is because you can see them one way.

00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.640
And a lot of times, sometimes you can see them one way because that's how you want them to be.

00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:43.920
I I like you want to be able, you want that.

00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:48.880
And it's like, I'm kind of seeing what I want to see, and I'm not really seeing what is.

00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:54.960
Um, and you got to put yourself in a position of vulnerability as a leader to be told what is.

00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:55.279
Yeah.

00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:57.920
I know this is what you want, and I know this is your aspiration.

00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:02.000
I know this is your desire for us, but this is not where we are right now, right?

00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:06.319
Or, you know, I need you to see us for more than what you're seeing us as.

00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:08.719
Like we actually are here and you're treating us here.

00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:09.519
It's like, okay.

00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.519
So you need to hear, you need to hear that and understand that.

00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.400
And I like what you said, Queen, about this particular leadership style.

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:17.440
You can get stuck in it.

00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:19.679
But I think we can get stuck in any leadership.

00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:28.320
You have to part of being a leader is saying, I'm always going to, I'm going to mold myself for the moment.

00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:32.079
Like, and and I'm gonna choose to do that every time.

00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:33.679
I was just talking with my sister-in-law.

00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:41.119
And she was just saying how they um she is in this co she's in this um, I guess, cohort about leadership.

00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.079
And they asked her, asked them all to define leadership.

00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.760
And she said one of the things she said was leadership is a daily choice.

00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:52.000
It is a daily choice, it is about character and choice.

00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:53.119
And I was like, I love that.

00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:54.639
I think that's so true.

00:34:54.960 --> 00:35:02.400
Because you have to decide, and it's a lifestyle, it's a lifestyle of of being of submitting to the moment.

00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:09.599
Like, you don't get to be a leader and be stuck in your own style, be stuck in your own way.

00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:11.119
That's not what leading is.

00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.360
When the direction changes, you gotta change because you have people that are looking to you.

00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:31.119
Here's the thing as the leader, I don't care if you laissez fair, democratic, or whatever, but especially laissez faire, you don't, it is a it is a hard thing when your team is more aware of what's happening than you.

00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:32.079
Absolutely.

00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:34.559
Because they're in it day to day.

00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:44.400
And so you as the leader, it doesn't matter what your leadership style is, you should be at least one step ahead of your team.

00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:54.559
You should be able to see when the changes are coming, when a need is coming, when you know what I'm saying, there are some things that come that knock us all off our feet.

00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:01.599
But as the leader, at some point, I'm gonna expect you to stand up and and be and be the leader.

00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:04.559
And and not the leader from a distance.

00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:16.880
You know, I'm I'm gonna when when when the stuff starts flying, okay, and the things start coming and and stuff starts going down, I'm let me tell you something.

00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:21.519
One thing Jaquita learned, okay, is to stay at her pay raise.

00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:23.199
Okay, that that's above me.

00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.079
Yeah, it's above me now, okay?

00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:27.840
I'm so sorry.

00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:35.119
Like you have to, your team should still be able to say, my supervisor is gonna handle that.

00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:35.679
Correct.

00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:36.000
Absolutely.

00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:40.719
I have a leader that can that that's gonna take the hard stuff.

00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:41.519
That's it.

00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:42.239
That's it.

00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:46.719
Your team should not be taking the hits because you're not present.

00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.440
That's a great that's a great point.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:58.960
And when you decide that you trust your team and they got it and they're gonna do it, when something goes wrong, the responsibility still lands with you.

00:36:59.280 --> 00:36:59.679
It's on you.

00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:00.239
That's on you.

00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:01.119
It's on you.

00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:15.760
And so if you are the type of leader who is detached and distant and they got it and let do and leave alone, but when stuff goes wrong, you like, hey, that was I gave that to my team and they were supposed to handle that.

00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:17.519
I don't know why they didn't do it.

00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:18.480
Absolutely not.

00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:20.000
No, and you know, it stops with you.

00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:33.679
That's and I like you said this earlier, like what like being clear on what your leader, you may not know all that your leader is doing, but you need to understand you it can be dangerous when you don't know what your leader's do.

00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:36.400
Like you just don't know, like how and how it impacts you.

00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:46.000
And I think that's one of the things, one of the ways you can put ease to your team is even if they know um there are certain problems that I don't have to worry about.

00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:59.440
And if that's if the if you like, if you help them to understand that and then you deliver when those things happen because they will, then you can with confidence they're doing their thing and they know who to call when there's an emergency.

00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:04.239
Like, and that's something that I learned how to do and I and I hope I do it well.

00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:17.199
But like, if there's ever any anxiety around something, whether it's a parent is mad, or we have to clean something up because we messed up a communication, or there is a this happened not too long ago.

00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:20.559
There was an active shooter outside of the outside of the building.

00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:21.519
My lord.

00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:26.480
And you know, Memphis, there were a couple of don't do that, don't do that.

00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:28.880
Hold on, don't do that, don't do that.

00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:31.360
Hold on, because we we already in the news, it's too much.

00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:31.920
Uh-uh.

00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:33.760
Oh Lord, no, I delete that.

00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:34.400
No, no, no.

00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.960
I'm saying like people are people are saying that about Memphis.

00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:38.639
I don't that ain't who we really are.

00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:42.239
It did happen, but that ain't all we are anyway.

00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:43.119
I digress.

00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:48.559
Um But we the team, I wasn't there.

00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:54.000
Um, and they were going, they were leaving their uh get into their cars.

00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:59.599
And they had they had had they some guys had come up and down the street anyway, with you know, all the guns.

00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:10.559
And um there was, you know, so one of my team members was getting in a car with a kid, and there was a shot fired at their, you know, towards their towards their direction.

00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:17.760
So anyway, they were telling me all this, and and we had a uh an like a um emergency team meeting.

00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:21.519
Emergency, we had a a spontane a team meeting.

00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:23.360
That's an emergency team meeting.

00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:24.000
I guess so.

00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:25.199
That would be what that is.

00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:31.360
Um the next morning just to go over protocol and all this stuff and make sure everybody was okay and all that.

00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:37.519
And so one of the things I was like, we need to sh we have to share with parents what happened.

00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:38.639
We need they need to know.

00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:41.920
We don't need that's not something we keep and we don't say.

00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:54.079
We communicate out, even though kids weren't necessarily most of the kids have gone home, nobody was hurt, all that stuff, but at least they need to know that we're aware and that their children are gonna be safe because at the very least we're gonna tell them what's going on.

00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:58.079
Yeah, I mean, you know, who that can't no, it it wouldn't have.

00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:07.440
Quite frankly, where we are, it doesn't get out because it happens a lot, it happens more than maybe other places, and they're not reporting on our neighborhood, so they didn't have to know.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.639
Um but we felt it was our responsibility, that's what we do, right?

00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:16.960
Like we we we want you to know what's going on, we want you to know that we have the backs of your kids.

00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:19.119
And you know who sent that out?

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:20.320
Me.

00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:26.159
I send that out, they hear from me, and I send it out and I sign my name to it, right?

00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:34.000
That's even though I wasn't present, I didn't experience it, but that's not a responsibility for anybody else but me.

00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:36.880
And if you have any questions about what happened, you call me.

00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:38.800
Don't call my team, right?

00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:42.559
That part and so that that that's what we want right there.

00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:43.519
You know what I'm saying?

00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:48.320
I want somebody who's gonna stick their chest out, yeah, you know what I'm saying, and stand on business.

00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:53.920
If you're gonna be lise fair, you know what I'm saying, you cannot when it's time.

00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:56.719
I what where are your feet planted?

00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:57.199
Yes.

00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:01.039
Who knows who you are and what you stand for?

00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:06.000
Like, because I still need to know I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be excellent.

00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:09.760
I'm gonna be amazing, I'm gonna get my things done.

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:14.159
But I need to know that you stand in there in case somebody got something to say.

00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:14.639
That's correct.

00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:16.400
In case something's gonna happen.

00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:16.880
Right?

00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:20.000
I one of I I had a fantastic boss.

00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:21.840
Love that, love that man.

00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:24.079
Great, great leader, great leader.

00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:34.320
And I remember there were uh a couple of times where things were getting heated, not in my office, but just on campus.

00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.119
And there were some things I was gonna have to respond to.

00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:40.480
And I just remember him being like, I got it.

00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:42.800
Like, I'm not gonna put you out there.

00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:54.320
It was technically, it should have been, it could have been my job to be, and I mean, it could, it could have gotten to the point where I I had to write statements that could that may be on the news.

00:41:54.880 --> 00:42:00.239
Or, you know, but but having knowing that he was there meant everything.

00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:09.920
Knowing that he was gonna put his name on things and that he was gonna stand ten toes down for me meant everything.

00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:10.159
Yeah.

00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:25.280
You know, because you need, and I think that's I think that's kind of my next point with Lazé Fair is that if you have this leadership style, you cannot go in without building a structure.

00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:27.039
You have to build your way to this.

00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:28.480
You need a system.

00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:35.840
Yeah, the idea that that you're gonna come in on day one and be like, all right, everybody do your thing.

00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:39.039
All right, wanna see you all flourish.

00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:42.559
I'll be checking in, you know, bi-monthly, you know.

00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:43.039
Right.

00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:47.519
You you gotta build, you gotta build your way there, player.

00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:48.719
You know what I'm saying?

00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:50.480
You gotta build some structures.

00:42:50.639 --> 00:43:03.840
And I think it's important that you, as the leader, you know, one of the things that I started asking anytime I hired someone new, what are your expectations of me as a supervisor?

00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:04.400
Right?

00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:07.199
Like what are you expecting from me?

00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:16.480
You need to be communicating with your team, you need to know the needs of your team, you need to know what it is that will help them to flourish.

00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:29.039
And like you said, Ruth Abigail, it is the job of every leader to become, you know, Paul says that I became all things to all men, that by all means I might gain some.

00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:29.440
Okay.

00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.400
You don't get you don't get to be static.

00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:33.119
No, you don't.

00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:38.960
You have to become what they need in order to get them to where they're going.

00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:39.280
Yeah.

00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:39.599
Right?

00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:43.599
Because and and you, above all, here's the thing.

00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.440
Their task is their responsibility.

00:43:47.679 --> 00:43:49.039
So, you know what I'm saying?

00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:53.840
The the things in their job descriptions, that's where they get their W's, right?

00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:55.360
That's where they get their wins.

00:43:55.599 --> 00:44:04.639
I successfully orchestrated this program, I successfully uh uh led this initiative, I successfully did my job.

00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.920
Their job is their responsibility.

00:44:08.239 --> 00:44:11.280
The team is where you get your wins.

00:44:11.440 --> 00:44:11.760
Yeah.

00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:18.480
And you are overseeing the mission and the vision of a thing, not a task.

00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:27.920
And so when you are overvision and when you are over a team, you have to be, you have, you are taking care of all the moving parts.

00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:31.119
So with one person, you may be able to be Lazate Fair.

00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.320
But with another person, you may need to be a little bit more democratic.

00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:35.599
That's an excellent point.

00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:42.159
Some people, somebody on your team might require you to be a little bit more autocratic.

00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:42.960
You ain't lying.

00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:44.960
You gotta put your foot down a little bit, you know.

00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:45.599
Come here.

00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:47.039
You gotta come here.

00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:48.400
What you doing?

00:44:48.559 --> 00:44:50.880
Write a schedule out, okay?

00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:53.920
I need to know because you're dripping.

00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:55.840
I'm sorry.

00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:56.239
I'm sorry.

00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:57.760
They might respond better to that.

00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:00.880
And then you meet them where they are.

00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:04.880
I don't care what your, I don't care what your leadership style is.

00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:08.639
Again, transformational leadership right here all day all long.

00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:14.800
And you know, I look back and I realized, you know, there were moments where I look back and I'm like, I could have handled that better.

00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:15.360
For sure.

00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:20.639
I had a team member that really stressed me out because they were always stressed out.

00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.519
And I told my team, we don't do anxiety.

00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:24.000
Okay.

00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:32.159
We don't we're not, and nothing we do on this job is that serious to where we need to be anxious.

00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:37.280
You know, if there's something that ain't going right, we're gonna handle it and we're gonna move on and have a great day.

00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:37.840
Right?

00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:44.320
But I had a team member who she would hit moments where she felt really stressed out.

00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:52.239
And I did not fully recognize her stress because I had told her, we're not stressing about this.

00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:53.840
It's gonna be fine.

00:45:54.079 --> 00:46:10.079
And I look back and I'm like, okay, this is where my laissez faire probably was unfair because it is not up to you to decide the capacity and the responses of your team members.

00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:10.480
Yeah.

00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:15.519
It's also not my job to make your job less stressful.

00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:17.119
Like that's not my job either.

00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:17.599
It's not.

00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:28.480
But I can be a little bit more, I can coach more instead of saying more, have a little bit more empathy, you know.

00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:32.079
Yes, empathy, but empathy is not gonna resolve it.

00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:33.199
No, it's not.

00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:38.559
But it'll it'll it'll help with the way that it is um received.

00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:47.440
Yes, but ultimately, when people want either less work or more pay, and you don't have either one of those to offer them.

00:46:47.760 --> 00:46:49.599
Well, that's that's yes, empathy.

00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:50.239
Huh?

00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:54.719
I'm saying empathy, empathy is good, yes, yes.

00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:56.320
You need to be more empathetic.

00:46:56.480 --> 00:47:16.159
But I also think that you need to be more communicative about you you have to allow them the opportunity to express what they're feeling, you have to believe what they're feeling, and then you have to find somewhere down the line that you can offer either some trade-offs or are you can coach.

00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:17.280
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:32.960
Like you, you, yeah, you empathy, I think empathy is the starting point, but then you gotta figure out how am I gonna coach this person because you if you if you are telling me that one day you you want my spot flash, you want my spot, right?

00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:42.480
If you're telling me that one day you would like to move into a role that is similar than mine, similar to mine, then I can't you cannot faint here.

00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:46.719
I have to build up your uh your strength.

00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:49.440
I have to I have to build up what you're able to carry.

00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:50.480
Yeah, for sure.

00:47:50.719 --> 00:48:00.719
Um and so I think again, if you are in the laissez faire mode though, you're not thinking about building and developing and making people better.

00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:03.360
You're thinking, man, my team is great.

00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:03.840
Yeah.

00:48:04.159 --> 00:48:11.760
Well, I think you're you're thinking you're thinking about it gives you the opportunity to think about capacity and it gives you the opportunity to think about scale, right?

00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:30.400
Um it you that that's where you can begin to think the have the you know three to five, you're thinking out further, much further than you than you even would normally because of your particular laissez-faire mode, because of who you're with.

00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:36.239
Um and for for leaders that are strategic, that's a really that's a gift, right?

00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:41.760
Um and and and for and for leaders who are growth-minded, that's a gift.

00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:46.960
Um I think I think lean into that season, if that's the season you're in, great.

00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:48.400
You won't always be in that season.

00:48:48.559 --> 00:48:54.239
Because at some point, one of those skilled people is gonna leave and a less skilled person is gonna come, and you may not be able to have that, right?

00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:04.480
And so you have to um, you know, lean lean into those moments and really take advantage of the opportunity to do those things, right?

00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:12.079
Because to your point, you gotta have struct structure is a is a must, it is a necessity for Lazarus leadership.

00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:44.320
If you are all over the place, if you don't have things or processes written down, if you don't, if you don't communicate, um, if you don't have schedules in place, if you don't have expectations, if you don't have um, you know, those those those key things, those um uh uh frames, uh if you don't have the right frame around the vision and boundaries, because frames are boundaries, and be able to focus the attention on what it is that you're on what it is that you're you need them to focus on.

00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:48.159
If you don't have those things, Lise Faire is gonna kill you.

00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:49.440
It's just gonna kill.

00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:51.440
It's gonna kill you, it's gonna kill the culture.

00:49:51.679 --> 00:49:52.559
You can't handle that.

00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:59.760
So if you don't, if you don't have structure, that's you can't, I I don't care if you have a skilled team or not, if you don't have structure, you can't do this.

00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:07.519
You have to spend your time getting gaining structure and making people understand the structure, uh, make sure people understand the structure and and all of that.

00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:09.519
So just I wanted to make sure that that was clear.

00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:10.719
Um yeah.

00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:14.639
I think Lise Fair Leadership is all about laying the groundwork.

00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:26.400
It's it's all about you still want to make sure you are setting your team up for success and not not depending on them, not telling them that they have to build their own success.

00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:26.800
Yeah.

00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:33.760
But hey, I'm going to provide you with the proper guidance and groundwork that's gonna help you to be successful.

00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:38.960
But I'm not, I I won't be holding your hand, but I have I have your groundwork for you.

00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:44.159
Um and you have to you have to know how you are adding that value.

00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:48.079
Well, that's it.

00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:49.360
I think we're done.

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:51.360
Yeah, lause ain't fair.

00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:51.599
Okay.

00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:54.880
Leave alone, let do.

00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:56.559
Let do, right?

00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:58.159
Let go and let God.

00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:00.639
Let go and let God.

00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:02.079
My Lord.

00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:04.320
My Lord.

00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:10.480
So, um, what we need you to do, if this was of value to you, we need you to like, share, and subscribe.

00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:13.280
We need you to let us let us know what you're thinking.

00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:14.400
We need that.

00:51:14.639 --> 00:51:16.239
Um, we want to hear from you.

00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:22.880
We want we want you to, you know, again, join the community, be a part of this growing, unlearning community, because we're growing.

00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:23.599
You know what I'm saying?

00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:25.280
We're growing as leaders, we're growing as people.

00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:25.760
Absolutely.

00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:28.079
And we and we be transparent on here, okay?

00:51:28.159 --> 00:51:28.800
We be trying.

00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:29.519
It'd be a lot.

00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:31.599
Oh, really?

00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:35.519
Sometimes I don't be re-listening to it because I don't want to want to really be reminded of what's happening.

00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:37.039
There are there are definitely some episodes.

00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:39.039
All right.

00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:40.639
No, I'm good on that one.

00:51:40.800 --> 00:51:41.760
Hopefully, we're blessed.

00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:42.480
Yeah, right.

00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:44.960
Um, but I don't want to relive my own trauma.

00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:45.440
Correct.

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.239
I'm good.

00:51:46.320 --> 00:51:46.639
I'm good.

00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:47.119
I'm good.

00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:50.960
But but uh if if if this is helpful to you, don't keep it to yourself, guys.

00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:52.000
Share it.

00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:56.159
Um, we love doing this, and uh, thank you for continuing to listen.

00:51:56.239 --> 00:51:57.360
We appreciate it.

00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:58.079
Yeah.

00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.639
So, Queen, we want to sign us off.

00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:16.639
All right, friends, let's keep unlearning together so that we can sorry, she's not she has literally in the history of the podcast never passed the sign off to me.

00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.119
The pause is crazy.

00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:22.400
Like all right, all right, friends.

00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:23.920
Thank y'all for joining us today.

00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:28.400
Let's keep unlearning together so that we can all experience more freedom.

00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:29.280
Peace.

00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:30.400
Peace.

00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.599
Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast.

00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:41.840
We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode.

00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:48.480
Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think.

00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:54.960
We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom.

00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:56.159
See you then.