Sept. 23, 2025

What You’re Leadership Style? Unlearning Autocratic Leadership

What You’re Leadership Style? Unlearning Autocratic Leadership

Send us a text The autocratic leadership style, often misunderstood but sometimes necessary, provides clear command and control when building something new or navigating through crisis. • Autocratic leadership is marked by a self-appointed, self-governing style where the leader maintains full control • This leadership style produces explosive results when there's no time for democratic process • Steve Jobs exemplifies a successful autocratic leader who maintained high standards while revolut...

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The autocratic leadership style, often misunderstood but sometimes necessary, provides clear command and control when building something new or navigating through crisis.

• Autocratic leadership is marked by a self-appointed, self-governing style where the leader maintains full control
• This leadership style produces explosive results when there's no time for democratic process
• Steve Jobs exemplifies a successful autocratic leader who maintained high standards while revolutionizing technology
• Autocratic leaders are typically highly skilled, influential, and charismatic individuals who inspire others to follow their vision
• Understanding the three types of leaders—builders, optimizers, and fixers—helps autocratic leaders know when to pivot
• Autocratic leaders must learn to transition from doing everything themselves to documenting processes and empowering others
• The apostle Paul demonstrates how autocratic leaders can pivot to coaching roles rather than maintaining constant control
• Partnerships between visionaries and optimizers create sustainable organizations
• Distinguishing between vision (what's essential) and preference (what's personal) allows autocratic leaders to let go appropriately
• Self-awareness and recognizing the current needs of your organization are crucial for effective leadership

Like, share, and subscribe to build our community! Tell a friend to tell a friend about these critical conversations that can help you gain the courage to change your mind and experience more freedom.


00:00 - Introduction to Leadership Styles Series

03:37 - Defining Autocratic Leadership

08:29 - Crisis Management and Autocratic Leadership

18:13 - Characteristics of Autocratic Leaders

34:42 - Steve Jobs: An Autocratic Success Story

38:31 - The Three Types of Leaders

48:45 - Finding Your Optimizer

57:42 - Pivoting from Builder to Coach

01:03:10 - Closing Thoughts and Farewell

WEBVTT

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hello everybody and welcome once again to the unlearned podcast.

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I am your host, ruth abigail aka ra what's up, friends?

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it's your girl, jaquita and this is the podcast that is helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you yes, you can experience more freedom.

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And we are in a series talking about leadership Leadership All different styles, guys, all different styles.

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If you're a leader and you've listened to this podcast, you probably are Then you lean into one of these seven styles of leadership.

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So each episode we're talking about a particular style, and so, if you haven't checked out our last one, go ahead and do that.

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Democratic, democratic leadership Really, really good, and we just kind of break down what that is.

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So in each one of these, we're going to break down what it is kind of, what the strengths and weaknesses are, and then, when you need to pivot to a different style, my Lord, kind of what the strengths and weaknesses are, and then, when you need to pivot to a different style, healthy leaders know how to pivot.

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My Lord, and so, queda, what we, what we, oh, wait, hold on Before we do that we're going to do, we're going to make sure that you like, share, subscribe, right.

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Like share subscribe.

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We want you to to.

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You know I'm saying you want you to spread the word.

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You know we want you to build the community.

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We want you to not keep this, this, uh, these, these critical conversations right To yourself.

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You help somebody else.

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Share, okay, share.

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Don't keep it to yourself.

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Tell a friend to tell a friend.

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All right, that's right.

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Because we're building a community.

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Okay, and we don't have the leadership style.

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We don't operate in the leadership style that we're going to be talking about today.

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That's not what we're trying to do.

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That ain't really who we are.

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Yeah, and I think it's important to note that, you guys, when we're thinking about what we're going to talk about in different seasons of the podcast and in different things that we're doing, we're really considering, you know, what's going on in your life and our lives, what's relevant, what's timely and how we can really share out information that's really going to help propel us all to the next level.

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Okay, and this particular day, this particular topic on today, I think, is going to be eye-opening for some of us.

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Yeah, and I think, you know, in our pre-conversation we were just like man, this is, it's a little bit deeper than we realized.

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And so today we are talking about the autocratic leadership style.

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Okay, and I, I really think, because when you think about the autocratic leadership style honestly, when you look if you were to go on, like Google and type who are some examples of autocratic leaders.

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The list of leaders might be a little scary.

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Okay, not a company you want to identify with.

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Yeah, like you know, like the first person up is like Hitler and you're like I don't want to identify with Hitler, you know, but I think it's going to be important.

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If you have ever founded something, if you have ever began something, if you consider yourself to be a visionary in any way right, if you've ever had to lead a team through an emergency moment right, you probably have at some time either used or identified with the autocratic leadership style.

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Okay, it's really kind of marked by leadership style that is kind of auto-think self.

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Right, it is a self-appointed, self-governing like leadership style.

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It is I'm at the top, I have the vision, I have the goals, I have the methodology and I am going to be directing and instructing people on how to carry out my vision.

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The vision is here, okay, it lives here, and I am going to be communicating and I'm going to have high expectations and a high level of precision of how this vision is supposed to be manifested, because what's in here should look like what I'm asking everyone to do, right, so it's really marked by a leader that kind of is the only decision maker, somebody who maintains full control throughout their leadership, some of its impacts, right, like, as you're thinking about when you think about a leader that is kind of like at the head of it.

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They're making all the decisions, they're calling all the plays, they're telling everyone what to do and they are not really asking for input.

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Correct, right?

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That can be a little stifling, right?

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Because not only are they not asking for input, they're also asking you to do things that in the ways that they would do it.

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Yeah, right, and they're not really here to explore your development or your particularities or your gifts, your talents.

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What you bring to the table, it's, hey, whatever you got used to do, what I asked you to do in the way that I asked you to do it, right.

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So it can be a little stifling sometimes, and sometimes it can affect morale, right, but it is very effective in the beginning of a thing, also in helping to navigate crisis, right.

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So, again, autocratic leadership it is you have one person who is the authority and who is the decision maker and who maintains control of both building and executing vision.

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So funny story Well, a little funny, so.

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Example of autocratic leadership in a way that is not Hitler.

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Okay, so important.

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Yeah so.

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So when I went to Germany with a group of people in 2014, and you know if you've ever traveled internationally, and you know if you've ever traveled internationally which I've only done one time like flown internationally, so you kind of have to be prepared for anything, and so we were at the airport super duper early.

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There was a very long line for security.

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We thought we were having enough time.

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Of course, none of us speak the language, so we're all kind of like you know, Ah, expecadoitsch.

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Okay, All right, coita was to live in germany, guys.

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I did so but but we, you know, so we're, we're, we're going through it and there's a point where, uh, our plane, we were kind of getting final calls right on the plane and, um, they were calling for calling for final boarding and we were way back in security and, um, this was, I think we were in paris.

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I want to say, um, and so this was our, um, this was our flight.

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No, I'm lying, we were in germany and we were headed to paris to get a, um, uh, get a get on the flight back to, uh, chicago to get in the flight.

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Yeah, so we had, like, we had a schedule.

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We could not afford to miss this flight.

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So jill, um, who's, uh, my partner crime and angel street right, um, we, um, she was kind of leader of the trip and and Jill put on her autocratic hat in a moment, she went and she basically bulldozed, literally bulldozed, and Jill is a small human, okay, so she's like that, she has to.

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She made her way and she was like come on, y'all, we making this, we making this flight, and she bulldozed through the crowd, making people upset.

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We all were a little upset, you know, we were upset, but then we could tell people were annoyed.

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Some people were cool.

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Some people were like what are they doing?

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Of course we're American, nobody likes Americans and so we're running, we're going through, and she just demands that we come to our plane.

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This was necessary, right, we had to have somebody to take that.

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She said I brought y'all here, I'm getting us home.

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And she did that, right, and we were fine, right.

00:08:16.019 --> 00:08:20.831
But that is so to the point that Coita was making.

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Autocratic leadership is necessary in some areas.

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Right, that was a crisis moment.

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Somebody had to take charge.

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We didn't have time to sit around and take a vote.

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We didn't have time to sit around and think through our feelings of bothering people.

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We didn't have time to do any of that.

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We had to do something and we had to do it now, and somebody had to lead us through that.

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When you have those kinds of moments, you gotta have that kind of tenacity as a leader, and it will often be be in that, in that way.

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Yeah, and I think something important to note is that most autocratic leaders they don't get there because you know they halfway do anything Like they are highly skilled, they are highly influential, they're usually brilliant, right Like they.

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They have, like just any any immense amount of gift, gifting and personality and charisma, right, our vision are like like just know how.

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Yeah, right, knowledge, wisdom, skill, like they are packed full of gifting right.

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Which is why people are like hey, yeah, let them be the leader, yeah, let them do it.

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And you know, I think you know I love that you use like that idea of like an emergency, like hey, like we got to get.

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Like this is this is not optional.

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Autocratic leadership is great in situations where there's not a lot of options.

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Like hey, we got to go my way because we don't have time for y'all to diddly that, right, okay, we don't have time for y'all to be whimsical and tiptoeing through the tulips, right, all right.

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Everybody's voice is not relevant in this conversation.

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No, because if we, in the democratic style, if we take a moment to say hey, what do you think we should do, what do you think we should do, and what do you think we should do, why don't we combine them all together?

00:10:09.225 --> 00:10:10.168
You missed the plane.

00:10:10.248 --> 00:10:27.679
We're back in the hotel, we're stuck in Germany, and so there is so much autocratic leadership can oftentimes produce explosive results, because they are the ones that are making the dynamic changes.

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They are making huge moves.

00:10:30.188 --> 00:10:33.769
You know, this is not a progressive play.

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This is the thing we're about to do is about the change.

00:10:37.408 --> 00:10:37.789
That's right.

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Yep, it's not.

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I like what you said the scope of the entire world.

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It's not progressive.

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That's really good.

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It's not.

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It's explosive world.

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It's not progressive.

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That's really good.

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It's not progressive, it is explosive.

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That's very good.

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And there are moments you know, even when you look through history.

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That's why and I hate that most of our autocratic examples we do have one that's not as negative but most of our autocratic examples are like Hitler.

00:11:01.947 --> 00:11:02.768
You know again.

00:11:02.768 --> 00:11:05.331
Napoleon, yeah, napoleon Right.

00:11:05.331 --> 00:11:06.673
Stalin, you know like.

00:11:06.673 --> 00:11:14.490
Yeah, you know like, but they had an explosive impact on history.

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It's not like George Washington who, along and along and along, built something.

00:11:18.669 --> 00:11:19.903
You know.

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It is like this person came out of nowhere and demanded that society change.

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Yeah, and society was like wow, okay.

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We're changing.

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You know what I'm saying, and so I think that it is.

00:11:37.183 --> 00:12:03.220
We have to be mindful of how we are influencing systems yeah, of how we are influencing systems, and you have to know, if you are a person, who, this is your primary style, right, this is your primary leadership style, and you often find yourself easily like coming up with visions that are gonna be have an explosive impact, right?

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I'm hoping that our conversation today can give some insight on how do we continue to not just lead teams through these explosive, dynamic kind of like ideas and situations that you want to build, but how do you pivot in your leadership, because there's an explosion and then there has to be somebody who's going to maintain it.

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Right, and sometimes you are the person to maintain it, and sometimes you have to know how to hand it off to the next person so you can go build something else that's going to completely blow up.

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You know what I'm saying, and so, when you have this leadership style, you have to be aware of what your influence and what kind of your commanding presence is doing in the example of a leader who had an autocratic style and but it was.

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It was very, it was very effective for for making Apple the way it is Right.

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He, he had very high standards.

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There was not a you didn't get a vote on how things were going If it didn't.

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If it, if it wasn't exactly how he wanted it, you didn't get a vote on how things were going If it didn't, if it, if it wasn't exactly how he wanted it.

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You're doing it again Like we're not we're like.

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He was highly creative, highly innovative, um, and he, he was a genius in the marketing field.

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He understood how to, how to, how to how to say things, how to make people, um, kind of connect to the products.

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He understood all of that very well, better than anybody else, I would dare say, in modern history.

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He's probably top three, right, and what he did.

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Hey, he got movies.

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You know, once they start making movies about you know what I'm saying Like you, you, you you, you, you were somebody, you were in a good space and so you know, I think that, like if you, if we have to kind of point to someone who didn't wasn't like a, it wasn't a dictator who's trying to, you know, do a new world order that was going to exclude human people, you know he's a great example, ever right.

00:14:32.461 --> 00:14:37.078
You can see, there's a difference between somebody who has helpers and somebody who has a team and I think, queda, what you were saying earlier, as far as I find it.

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I will say it like this I think it's hard to pair an autocratic leader with a team.

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I don't think autocratic leaders have teams.

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I think they have people who help and team.

00:14:48.730 --> 00:14:55.623
I don't think autocratic leaders have teams, I think they have people who help, and now I don't think they always realize that, right, well, that's right and that's my point.

00:14:55.623 --> 00:15:05.629
I think you can't be autocratic and have a team, because team is about working together and an autocratic leader is not really interested in working with you.

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He or she wants you working for them, and so that that's a, that's a mindset shift and at certain times and seasons of certain things, that's necessary.

00:15:18.365 --> 00:15:20.888
Brand new concept.

00:15:20.888 --> 00:15:25.913
The way that the, the, the, the way that that can.

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That computer worked at the time was different than any other thing that was happening.

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He wanted it to look different and feel different and all this stuff.

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It was not the way IBM was doing it.

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It was not the way Microsoft, mike, you know well, microsoft was software, so we're not going to go there.

00:15:41.494 --> 00:16:10.884
But his, his hardware was so different, it was beautiful, it was a whole, was a whole different you know field, and so you look at transferring from, you know um, like computers, to then phones, to then watches, to, then you know uh, uh, all these different things, right, so, I think, a very good example of an autocratic leadership style.

00:16:10.884 --> 00:16:20.644
But somebody who wasn't a bad human, tyrant, tyrant, dictator, right, what was it?

00:16:20.684 --> 00:16:43.991
Steve Jobs, and you know, for Steve Jobs is a good example, because Steve Jobs had a very clear vision of what he was wanting Apple to be, what he wanted his products to look like, and so he was insistent on not going beneath that standard.

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In his mind, it's like this is what it has to be.

00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:48.727
Yeah, and the standard was his vision.

00:16:50.144 --> 00:16:53.355
Was his vision right, and so it was the uniqueness of that.

00:16:53.355 --> 00:17:10.531
If you're not familiar with Steve Jobs, one of the unique things about his journey is that by the time we, we, we got the computer right I think it was the Lisa Um and then you had all these different types right.

00:17:10.531 --> 00:17:21.128
He, he had, he, he was a part of the company for a time and then he left the company and I don't remember if he got fired or he left.

00:17:21.128 --> 00:17:23.811
I feel like they fired, like it was a disagreement.

00:17:23.811 --> 00:17:24.295
So you had they fired.

00:17:24.295 --> 00:17:35.250
It was a disagreement, it was some clashing and part of it was because he did not like the direction that it was going and he wanted to take it a different direction.

00:17:35.250 --> 00:17:40.388
Right, thank you all.

00:17:40.388 --> 00:17:43.478
Right, so my husband just told me the board voted him out.

00:17:43.498 --> 00:17:55.619
He's over here listening to the conversation we appreciate you so the board the board voted voted him out because they had a difference of opinion of where the comfort home was going, but then they brought him back.

00:17:55.619 --> 00:17:57.342
They brought him back.

00:17:57.362 --> 00:18:02.288
Let me tell you something but the and so it's like I think there's a lot to like.

00:18:02.288 --> 00:18:15.580
They brought him back and then he, from then until I think he, he willingly left, um, that's when we get, uh, all these different um, wait, wait, when I say willing to lift, he didn't die before he.

00:18:15.580 --> 00:18:21.292
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just making sure I'm right, sensitive, I'm just making sure I'm right.

00:18:21.292 --> 00:18:23.114
Did he pass before he retired?

00:18:23.114 --> 00:18:29.357
Got it okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, thank you, producer joy, yeah, his health, his health caught up with him.

00:18:29.357 --> 00:18:34.804
I'm not trying to be insensitive, I'm just trying to get my facts straight listen, you gotta get the story around someone's death.

00:18:34.844 --> 00:18:36.615
You really gotta get yeah, I don't want to get that wrong.

00:18:36.634 --> 00:18:59.210
You know what I'm saying like I'm trying to get that wrong but, but throughout, when he is after he came back, is is when we we get all the like big, innovative things that he did when we went basically from computer to phone to, you know, ipod to um, or computer to iPod to phone, to like iPad, right, and now, like these are things that he really put into place.

00:18:59.210 --> 00:19:06.682
Um, that doesn't happen by consensus, that doesn't happen by getting a vote.

00:19:06.682 --> 00:19:20.819
That happens by listening to someone's vision and executing on his behalf, and so we see the growth of Apple as a great company, as a company that has a cult following.

00:19:21.060 --> 00:19:45.723
I am one of them, um, and you know, I mean, I'm just not interested in I mean, I have the products now and I appreciate you know, but I was, I was an android user for a while until my, my friends started having children and they were like you're gonna mess up the facetime things and I was like I'm saying like, but see even that, like those are things that he, he understood, like he like he just understood those things and so, um.

00:19:46.064 --> 00:19:58.992
So yeah, if you want to think about that like you, there are moments and seasons in in, uh, organizations and companies where that kind of leadership style is necessary for the growth and for the identity of a company.

00:19:59.614 --> 00:20:27.133
The question is, if you realize, though and Apple started to plateau after he was no longer in the picture, and even to decline a little bit and I don't, I don't want to, we're not, we're not like business analysts, so I'm not, I'm not going to speculate too much here, but I do think that a big reason for that is, when you have that kind of leadership style, you don't often pass those things on.

00:20:27.133 --> 00:20:38.811
They live in you, and when you're no longer there, it's no longer there, so when he has moved on, now, the leadership has not.

00:20:38.811 --> 00:20:46.002
It was not like there was no encouragement to kind of catch what he had and keep it going.

00:20:46.002 --> 00:21:03.628
It was like, no, I don't need you to, I need you to just follow me, just follow me, just follow me, just follow me, and there's no multiplication, there's no, there's no sharing of anything, and so that innovative spirit kind of left with him and you can see that in the way the company kind of went.

00:21:05.121 --> 00:21:14.892
So yeah, I think a couple of things that, again, if you are identifying with this leadership style one, there's nothing wrong.

00:21:14.892 --> 00:21:26.886
I mean, there are things that need to be adapted and you need to pivot from in this leadership style at different seasons, but it is okay if this is kind of like a primary place that you sit.

00:21:26.886 --> 00:21:30.163
But there are some things that I think that you have to realize.

00:21:30.163 --> 00:21:40.146
One you know, like when you talked about him getting voted out, and I think autocratic leaders have to know you will face some adversity.

00:21:40.146 --> 00:22:00.765
You will face adversity because we don't really live in a society where people, where we're going to follow one person for too long right, like you, you're going to, like you being the seat of vision and innovation and everything comes from me is not sustainable.

00:22:00.765 --> 00:22:06.567
It's not sustainable for the growth of an organization and it's not sustainable for you as a person.

00:22:06.567 --> 00:22:17.643
You know I hate to bring this example up, but the example that I thought of when we were kind of talking through this episode was when you look back at slavery.

00:22:17.643 --> 00:22:21.589
Okay, you know, like a lot of those a lot.

00:22:21.589 --> 00:22:24.575
You know, when I studied that I did a.

00:22:24.575 --> 00:22:33.886
I did a lot of like black history courses when I was in divinity school, like African-American religious courses and just American history.

00:22:33.886 --> 00:22:55.625
You know, like a lot of those slave owners went crazy, because maintaining that sense of control and that sense of all the ideas and all the privilege and all the power comes from me, it is not sustainable for you as a person and you will look back.

00:22:55.664 --> 00:22:57.970
The other example that I thought of was Thanos.

00:22:57.970 --> 00:23:19.624
You will look back, you know, like Thanos in Infinity War and in Avengers Endgame and the Avengers franchise, you know Thanos was like I have the vision, you know, and what we need to do to maintain the universe is wipe out half of y'all and this is going to solve everything, all the problems.

00:23:19.624 --> 00:23:35.462
Because I think that autocratic leadership style gets really focused on ideals and ideas and concepts and agendas and mission and purpose, and not always people.

00:23:35.462 --> 00:23:58.232
Because anytime you are trying to build something, you don't always really think through process, consider how it's really going to impact people or how people are really what, or how people are really going to, or how people are really going to think through or be impacted by your idea.

00:23:58.232 --> 00:24:00.482
You're just thinking this is a great idea.

00:24:00.864 --> 00:24:07.701
So Thanos was like hey, wipe out half the people and we will now have a better world.

00:24:07.701 --> 00:24:13.482
And they're like hey, you're not killing my family, my brothers, my sisters, you're not killing half the world.

00:24:13.482 --> 00:24:29.104
And so there becomes this war of ideas, and I feel like autocratic leaders may often find themselves in that position where you you, you're an autocratic leader because you believe in your ideas, you believe in your dreams and your visions.

00:24:29.104 --> 00:24:31.634
What do you do when other people don't?

00:24:31.634 --> 00:24:35.325
And I think that's where the pivot and the adaptation has to begin.

00:24:36.606 --> 00:24:40.583
Um so, speaking of Thanos, could you raise your wrist real quickly?

00:24:40.583 --> 00:24:44.787
Y'all are so silly, because I didn't see it until 2019.

00:24:44.906 --> 00:24:45.689
This is bananas.

00:24:45.710 --> 00:24:47.423
Because hold on, because we have the time.

00:24:47.423 --> 00:24:49.388
Stone Hold on, we have the power.

00:24:49.409 --> 00:24:54.050
Stone, oh my gosh, we have the space stone.

00:24:54.961 --> 00:24:56.066
When I tell you that it's dumb.

00:24:56.066 --> 00:25:00.644
I'm just saying like, hold on, turn around, let me see if something else Hold on, what's the other one?

00:25:00.663 --> 00:25:01.265
Oh my gosh, we have the.

00:25:01.285 --> 00:25:02.866
Mind Stone Well, you got them.

00:25:02.866 --> 00:25:03.968
You got them.

00:25:03.968 --> 00:25:06.310
That is great, that's bananas.

00:25:06.530 --> 00:25:07.853
That is fantastic.

00:25:07.853 --> 00:25:10.236
I will tell you, I willed my power for good.

00:25:17.027 --> 00:25:17.146
Okay.

00:25:17.247 --> 00:25:17.988
And I'd like to share.

00:25:17.988 --> 00:25:19.589
Oh, I'm so glad Producer know good and well.

00:25:19.589 --> 00:25:30.029
And the funny thing is I had just taken it off, because I take my jewelry on and off a lot and when I saw that I was like let me put it back on so they can make this little crazy point.

00:25:30.049 --> 00:25:30.412
Oh, that's funny.

00:25:30.412 --> 00:25:31.015
Thank you for that.

00:25:31.015 --> 00:25:33.343
That was great Hilarious.

00:25:33.964 --> 00:25:37.626
I like my little bracelet, though it's cute, that's cute, it's real cute.

00:25:37.666 --> 00:25:39.151
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just don't kill nobody.

00:25:39.151 --> 00:25:46.040
My Real cute.

00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:47.203
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just don't kill nobody.

00:25:47.203 --> 00:25:56.132
Um, so I think again, I let's let's kind of like define when, uh, really clearly define when, these when, when the autocratic leadership style is truly appropriate and you've kind of hit on it.

00:25:56.132 --> 00:26:04.953
Um, when you're building something, okay, uh, there's no room for conversation, right?

00:26:05.622 --> 00:26:19.720
Usually you're on a deadline, usually you're under a lot of pressure, usually you are trying to create something out of nothing, and so you think about how a contractor moves.

00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:26.266
A contractor tells people what they need to be doing, where they need to be going.

00:26:26.266 --> 00:26:33.689
A contractor's like this okay, you're here, you're here, you're here, I need you here, I need this done by this time, because then this person has to come in and do this.

00:26:33.689 --> 00:26:36.167
Like, there's not a whole lot of conversation and discussion.

00:26:36.167 --> 00:26:44.189
I'm not trying to get your opinion, I'm not interested in that, right, we're trying to get this thing off the ground.

00:26:44.189 --> 00:27:27.794
We're trying to build, and so, when you have that mentality, when you are building something, when there is something out of nothing, of which I have personally been a part of five teams that have done that okay, there aren't a lot of things I'm gonna call myself an expert in, and when I say expert I mean, like, having that 10,000 hours that Malcolm Gladwell talks about, um, I, I have 10,000 hours in founding things, and um, I know that that it takes um a level of confidence and clarity and, um, and clear communication right Of, not just clarity like clarity of thought and communication to get something off the ground.

00:27:28.359 --> 00:27:31.205
Um, and I also know being a part of founding teams.

00:27:31.205 --> 00:27:57.565
Everybody, like, if you're a part of a founding team, you understand that there are some things you don't get a say in, there's some things we're just going to do, right, um, and and so I think that we have to realize that, um, those, those types of leaders are crucial for the beginning, like you said, and for the founding of something, uh, for building a foundation, right, um.

00:27:57.565 --> 00:28:16.273
And if that is a season in which you're in as far as your, you know your leadership, or the season of your organization, um, the season of your, of your family, I will say this because um, uh, and and I'm, I, I'm a pivot to this real quick and quit, I'd love your thoughts on this.

00:28:16.273 --> 00:28:22.921
Um, I don't know that I'd go as far as to say, now this you're going to this this is about to be bananas.

00:28:23.102 --> 00:28:25.708
This might mess with your head a little bit, it's okay.

00:28:25.708 --> 00:28:30.095
We were talking about biblical characters and you were trying to like figure, like what there's a.

00:28:30.095 --> 00:28:33.083
Is there a biblical leader that kind of leans into this style?

00:28:33.083 --> 00:28:37.228
And I didn't say it then, but I'm going to say it now, I'm going to see what you think.

00:28:37.228 --> 00:28:44.435
I don't know if I'm fully ready to say this, but I think there are elements of this in his leadership and that's Paul.

00:28:45.041 --> 00:28:46.046
I knew you were going to say Paul.

00:28:46.046 --> 00:28:48.166
I knew it.

00:28:48.166 --> 00:28:50.690
I was sitting there and I was like she's about to say Paul.

00:28:50.951 --> 00:28:51.333
But, but?

00:28:51.333 --> 00:28:52.176
But do you understand?

00:28:52.176 --> 00:29:10.781
Like, but, okay, Like when you look at, because, because you're founding, the like, the church is being founded and is being founded, and so it wasn't just Paul, right, the apostles in general I would call them a founding team and there were decisions that they had to make that you didn't get to say it right now.

00:29:10.781 --> 00:29:27.451
They kind of they kind of they kind of did that with each other, but there was not a lot of it's like, hey, we've got to just come up with these particular guidelines of how, the how we operate as a unit, and that's just what it's gonna be like.

00:29:27.451 --> 00:29:28.996
Um, now did they?

00:29:28.996 --> 00:29:29.738
You?

00:29:29.738 --> 00:29:31.301
You're about I know you're about to push back a little bit.

00:29:31.301 --> 00:29:31.741
That's okay.

00:29:31.741 --> 00:29:35.911
No, no, what I'm gonna say is look at you.

00:29:36.310 --> 00:29:37.473
I I'm not.

00:29:37.473 --> 00:29:38.942
I'm not here to talk about the other types.

00:29:38.942 --> 00:29:40.604
I'm gonna answer to answer Paul.

00:29:40.604 --> 00:30:04.417
Okay, paul, I will say I think another distinct trait of autocratic leadership is a sense of one, a high level of excellence, a high level of, but not just excellence.

00:30:04.438 --> 00:30:05.799
What's the like values?

00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:16.685
And you know, there there's always, like, I feel, like every autocratic leader, you can like, take them and be like this was the mission, these were the values.

00:30:16.685 --> 00:30:18.107
Yeah, these were the standards.

00:30:18.107 --> 00:30:24.878
Right, high standards, high values, right, like spirit of excellence.

00:30:25.278 --> 00:30:44.208
I also think another kind of indicator of an autocratic leader is someone they usually have a high level of belief, Because you got to believe in your vision, you got to believe in your vision and you got to believe in what you're trying to accomplish.

00:30:44.560 --> 00:30:51.923
So I think there's a high level of belief and I think that there is a, a sense of inspiration, like I've.

00:30:51.923 --> 00:31:11.599
I've been inspired, I have, I have received, I know the way forward, I know the thing, and you have to be fully committed, fully convinced, because you are now going to have to go out and get other people to believe it too and then enact it.

00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:12.342
That's right.

00:31:12.342 --> 00:31:25.653
I would say I wouldn't put Paul completely as an autocratic leader because I think that he also had other people around him that he was one pouring into.

00:31:25.653 --> 00:31:30.589
But I also think that he took a lot of time to be poured into and influenced.

00:31:30.589 --> 00:31:50.792
And, yes, I would not put him fully as an autocratic leader but I can see how some of these traits from autocratic leadership because Paul, the other disciples were really kind of founding churches in places that they knew and understood Paul was going out into the Gentiles.

00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:54.088
This is where I would say I don't know.

00:31:54.088 --> 00:31:57.941
Like I said, I wouldn't classify him as an autocratic leader.

00:31:57.941 --> 00:32:14.949
So I think that, because of that right Like that, that, um, that particular nuance of his leadership, he was bringing in a once excluded people into a faith that was never intended for them, and so it was intended for them.

00:32:15.009 --> 00:32:15.991
Thank you very much, but go ahead.

00:32:16.011 --> 00:32:17.303
What I mean?

00:32:17.363 --> 00:32:27.297
you know what I mean You're all welcome welcome culturally it wasn't like, let's just it culturally wasn't yes, it was okay, um, one day we're gonna have just a little debate.

00:32:27.477 --> 00:32:27.858
No, we're not.

00:32:27.858 --> 00:32:28.622
We're never gonna do that.

00:32:28.622 --> 00:32:29.727
That's actually never gonna happen.

00:32:29.727 --> 00:32:34.865
Um, and so uh only because she doesn't want it to one faith, one more, one baptism.

00:32:34.884 --> 00:32:38.032
We ain't debating on here okay, no, okay, wait, but hold on.

00:32:38.032 --> 00:32:42.748
That statement was made by paul and that was.

00:32:42.748 --> 00:32:46.174
That was a statement that he was not.

00:32:46.174 --> 00:32:47.541
I don't think he had to.

00:32:47.541 --> 00:32:47.981
He had to.

00:32:47.981 --> 00:32:55.275
Even even the apostles had to be had to come to understand that.

00:32:55.275 --> 00:32:57.946
I mean, look at the look at Peter and his revelation.

00:32:57.946 --> 00:33:12.131
He was not for the Gentiles we don't get off of this in a minute y'all, but I think this is important for those you know but like he wasn't for the Gentiles being a part of it, like, and so I'm just saying like Paul had to really like lean in hard on some things.

00:33:12.441 --> 00:33:12.763
Yeah.

00:33:12.904 --> 00:33:13.590
I'll say this.

00:33:13.590 --> 00:33:15.244
No, I'll say this.

00:33:15.244 --> 00:33:20.309
I will say the apostolic call just in general.

00:33:20.309 --> 00:33:38.421
When we talk about five-fold ministry, Okay, and if anybody needs any more conversation, you know you have apostles, you have prophets, you have pastors, teachers and evangelists Apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers and evangelists Okay, Just make sure I got everybody.

00:33:38.421 --> 00:33:59.996
You know, I think that when you look at, when you look at an apostolic call just in general and I think that Paul is a wonderful example of this Like it is like everything that you were talking about, you know, like finding something that was that was not existing, and and adding structure and standards to it.

00:33:59.996 --> 00:34:06.430
I do think that's important to understand about people who have autocratic leadership styles.

00:34:06.430 --> 00:34:09.077
You are setting the framework for something.

00:34:09.097 --> 00:34:13.525
You're setting the framework, yes, and so it is important Noah building the ark.

00:34:13.626 --> 00:34:16.771
That was a precise move.

00:34:16.771 --> 00:34:18.434
Every board had a place.

00:34:18.434 --> 00:34:28.228
Building the temple, everything had a place, a position, because we are trying to enact a vision Right, and I think what Paul would say is it's not my vision.

00:34:28.989 --> 00:34:32.427
Right, it's not, and I think that's the point.

00:34:32.980 --> 00:34:41.630
And I think that that's something also that autocratic leaders have to deal with, because there is a sense and where you have to let go of it.

00:34:41.630 --> 00:35:00.403
Deal with because there is a sense and where you have to let go of it, where you have to release your control and say, even though this is an amazing vision that has been given to me from the Lord and it is indeed my assignment to carry this out, there is a sense in which you have to say this this belongs to the Lord.

00:35:00.403 --> 00:35:01.525
I'm a soldier, you know.

00:35:01.525 --> 00:35:03.349
I think that and I think that's what.

00:35:03.349 --> 00:35:15.253
That's where Paul, based off of the way that we've kind of been defining and understanding autocratic leadership, I think that's where Paul would, would, would show us how to pivot.

00:35:15.253 --> 00:35:21.007
You know, paul would say I'm a servant of the most high, I'm a soldier of the Lord.

00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:23.137
He had a healthy understanding of the most high.

00:35:23.137 --> 00:35:23.398
I'm a soldier of the Lord.

00:35:23.398 --> 00:35:25.715
He had a healthy understanding, a very healthy understanding Of what this is.

00:35:27.663 --> 00:35:40.847
The other thing I think that we can take from Paul and thank you, ruth Abigail, because I do think that, because I told you I was like there's a biblical example I'm trying to get to the other thing that we can take from Paul is is that Paul did not try to pastor all the churches, correct.

00:35:40.847 --> 00:35:45.913
Paul did not say all right, I founded you and I'm going to walk with you and I'm going to be here.

00:35:45.913 --> 00:35:54.045
Paul was like all right, we built this thing over here, now we're going over here.

00:35:54.045 --> 00:35:56.954
Now we're going over here, now we're going over here, and that is what allowed the kingdom to expand.

00:35:56.994 --> 00:36:19.503
I think where autocratic leaders will find that they can sometimes get stuck is when what they found it they're still trying to hold on to and they're like because this was my vision, this was my idea and this, this came to me and I'm the only one that can do it, I'm the only one that can da, da, da, da, da.

00:36:19.503 --> 00:36:21.284
I have to stay with it.

00:36:21.284 --> 00:36:37.393
And it's like sometimes, and I think a good, a good many of the times, there is somebody that is waiting in the folds, there is somebody that has been walking along with you.

00:36:37.393 --> 00:36:42.795
Right, there's a Timothy, there's a Silas right.

00:36:42.795 --> 00:37:00.313
There's somebody that you have you have been that that has walked with you, that agrees with the standards that, that has caught the vision, and you have to be able to toss them the ball and say, hey, I'm here for you, I got you.

00:37:00.313 --> 00:37:10.322
Say, hey, I'm here for you, I got you, I'm with you, but you have the ball now and so I started it.

00:37:10.322 --> 00:37:10.983
But you're going to maintain it.

00:37:11.003 --> 00:37:28.246
And I think that autocratic leaders they have to be able to discern a moment when it's going to be more helpful for them to allow other people, because your gifting, your gifting, is not going to inspire a team.

00:37:28.246 --> 00:37:34.806
Your gifting as an autocratic leader, it is not going to be able to galvanize and energize and develop.

00:37:34.806 --> 00:37:38.293
That's not going to be your main focus.

00:37:38.293 --> 00:37:54.405
You may be able to pivot in some ways to do that, but it is so much more beneficial if you allow the people that are actually gifted to do that, if you allow them in and give them some creative control.

00:37:54.405 --> 00:37:57.007
You don't have to share power, but you do have to pass it.

00:38:00.153 --> 00:38:02.760
I don't know if I totally agree with that, but but I yes, I think.

00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:05.452
I mean, I think in in the founding of it.

00:38:05.452 --> 00:38:08.699
You may not be sharing the founding of it.

00:38:08.699 --> 00:38:14.217
You may not be sharing it then, but you do have to pass it Like you have to.

00:38:14.217 --> 00:38:18.351
You have to say, okay, I have this thing, and then you have to pass it.

00:38:18.833 --> 00:38:23.418
So I think one of the key things here we talk about this principle all the time is self-awareness.

00:38:23.418 --> 00:38:27.161
If you, you, you as leaders, it is, it is.

00:38:27.161 --> 00:38:30.166
It is imperative that we are self-aware.

00:38:30.166 --> 00:38:46.371
It's also imperative that we are aware of the moment, so not just self-aware but you're aware of the moment you're in, and I think that when you're both of those things, you can do the kind of thing that Queda is saying.

00:38:46.371 --> 00:38:53.175
But if I'm not self-aware and I'm not aware of the moment, then all I'm going to be doing is doing what I feel like I know how to do.

00:38:53.175 --> 00:38:54.617
There are three.

00:38:54.617 --> 00:39:01.338
This isn't exclusive, but I heard this and I kind of held onto it.

00:39:01.338 --> 00:39:06.797
There are three types of leaders that you can, and I think it's relevant to this conversation.

00:39:07.269 --> 00:39:10.840
You have builders, you have optimizers and you have fixers.

00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:14.117
Builders build.

00:39:14.117 --> 00:39:17.856
They start from nothing and they come up with something right.

00:39:17.856 --> 00:39:26.373
They like whiteboards, they like just kind of wondering and thinking about ideas and coming up with stuff like that.

00:39:26.373 --> 00:39:30.202
They don't like instruction, they want to figure things out themselves, that kind of thing.

00:39:30.202 --> 00:39:33.898
Right, I'm a builder, this is where I live best.

00:39:33.898 --> 00:39:35.222
They're creative and all this stuff.

00:39:35.222 --> 00:39:41.269
You have optimizers Optimizers, the way I like to think about it maximize what the builder builds.

00:39:41.269 --> 00:39:46.971
And so they take what is there and they grow it, they scale it.

00:39:46.971 --> 00:39:48.012
These are your scalers.

00:39:48.012 --> 00:39:52.882
These are people who are good delegators.

00:39:52.882 --> 00:39:54.172
They're able to build a team.

00:39:54.172 --> 00:39:57.918
They're able to maximize what you have built.

00:39:58.460 --> 00:39:59.842
And then you have fixers.

00:39:59.842 --> 00:40:03.536
Right, fixers come in and they are crisis management people.

00:40:03.536 --> 00:40:09.150
They're like okay, things are crumbling, I'm coming to fix it.

00:40:09.150 --> 00:40:12.755
Right, they are often people who you know.

00:40:12.755 --> 00:40:16.942
These are sometimes your interim leaders, right?

00:40:16.942 --> 00:40:28.277
I've been under interim leadership before and it's like we're not ready for a more long-term leader because we have some issues we have to fix.

00:40:28.277 --> 00:40:33.255
And you have sometimes interim leaders who come in and say I don't want to be your long-term leader.

00:40:33.255 --> 00:40:44.971
I'm not an optimizer, I'm not going to scale this thing, but I can come in and tell you what's broken and we can fix it and put it back together and put it in a place where a leader can come in to be able to maximize this thing.

00:40:44.971 --> 00:40:48.822
Well, so what happens is-.

00:40:48.862 --> 00:40:50.085
I think it's interesting.

00:40:50.085 --> 00:41:01.059
Sorry, I think it's interesting because I feel like on our unlearned team, I feel like we have all of them, I feel like we have a builder, I feel like we have an optimizer and Joy is constantly fixing us.

00:41:01.059 --> 00:41:01.641
Yeah, she is.

00:41:01.681 --> 00:41:09.463
She's trying to always fix this she feels like we're broken, like she thinks we're broken people, these poor souls, terrible people, man.

00:41:09.463 --> 00:41:25.554
They need my help all the time yeah, um so, yeah, I think, I think you're right and I think the best teams have a mix of it, right, you need that, but you also need to understand and we talked about this in um, in the lion king we were talking about like a circle, like it's a circle, right.

00:41:25.615 --> 00:41:27.822
Yeah that was good.

00:41:27.822 --> 00:41:28.764
That was good.

00:41:29.146 --> 00:41:34.610
Go back to our summer series, catch that one check out summer scenes, talk about the lion king, talk about leadership as a circle, not a ladder.

00:41:34.610 --> 00:41:40.257
So, um, you, you know, we, we, we, we, we have to at some point.

00:41:40.257 --> 00:41:41.217
It's your term.

00:41:41.217 --> 00:41:42.298
We all affect each other.

00:41:43.099 --> 00:42:03.976
If you put a builder in an optimizing position, then oftentimes what you'll find is on is creating unnecessary, on creating things and putting things on top of each other just to create Cause that's what you're built to do, right?

00:42:03.976 --> 00:42:17.869
If you put a fixer in the position of a builder, oftentimes what you'll find is that you break things just to fix them, because you don't and it's not that you're trying to do that, but you're looking for a problem.

00:42:17.869 --> 00:42:23.335
If I'm looking for a problem to fix, sometimes I'll create the problem to fix, but really what you need is a builder.

00:42:23.335 --> 00:42:26.478
You need somebody who's going to build, but a fixer can't build right.

00:42:26.478 --> 00:42:33.614
If you put an optimizer in a position of fixer, then a lot of times that thing will crumble, because an optimizer really is.

00:42:33.614 --> 00:42:39.672
They're not trying to fix it, they're trying to make it better, but it's not better and I don't know what to do with it, so I'm just perpetuating what's wrong.

00:42:39.713 --> 00:42:42.637
Ruth Abigail, you better teach the people on today.

00:42:42.896 --> 00:42:55.835
So you have to understand and it's a good again, it's not exclusive and this is not like, but it's a good way, I think, to understand.

00:42:55.835 --> 00:43:00.230
When we're talking about autocratic leadership, that belongs with a particular type of leader, it belongs in a particular type of time period.

00:43:00.309 --> 00:43:01.132
That's so good.

00:43:02.014 --> 00:43:03.820
An autocratic leader can't be an optimizer.

00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:10.697
If something is needed to scale and something is needed to grow, you can't be autocratic.

00:43:10.697 --> 00:43:15.938
If you need to fix a problem, you can be autocratic there right.

00:43:15.938 --> 00:43:22.657
If you are starting something from scratch and there's no manual, you can be autocratic there, right.

00:43:22.657 --> 00:43:25.771
Again, though, each one of those has a cycle.

00:43:25.771 --> 00:43:27.556
Building is not always building.

00:43:27.556 --> 00:43:30.835
At some point you want to grow the thing you built, so you've got to move.

00:43:31.498 --> 00:43:35.590
And there has to be somebody else who an autocratic leadership style will no longer work.

00:43:35.590 --> 00:43:36.972
Right Does that?

00:43:37.012 --> 00:43:37.253
make sense.

00:43:37.253 --> 00:43:37.833
I'm sorry.

00:43:37.833 --> 00:43:47.144
No, everything on the inside of me is jumping around because I think it's so critical.

00:43:47.144 --> 00:43:49.771
I feel like I am surrounded.

00:43:49.771 --> 00:43:58.233
I am surrounded by very gifted, wonderful, amazing, beautiful visionaries and I used to feel bad.

00:43:58.233 --> 00:44:01.322
I used to be like Jaquita get some vision about yourself, sure.

00:44:01.530 --> 00:44:02.032
All right, where's your?

00:44:02.052 --> 00:44:02.355
vision daughter?

00:44:02.355 --> 00:44:03.159
Right, because I was just like Jaquita.

00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:04.929
Get some vision about yourself, sure, all right, where's your vision daughter?

00:44:04.929 --> 00:44:06.695
Right, because I was just like I was.

00:44:06.695 --> 00:44:13.215
So I mean just such a high level of respect and admiration for who they are.

00:44:13.215 --> 00:44:16.239
But I think that it is important.

00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:28.550
You know one I understand because I used to tell people I'm a great second, right, and I remember somebody got really offended that I said that and they were like why, why are you saying that you're a second?

00:44:28.550 --> 00:44:30.619
Like there, there's beauty in being a second.

00:44:30.619 --> 00:44:34.150
I was like, I know, but I'm just saying I'm a great second, but I am.

00:44:34.150 --> 00:44:37.054
What you just described was.

00:44:37.233 --> 00:44:45.864
I'm like, hey, I'm really, really good at, at, at taking an idea and blowing it up.

00:44:45.864 --> 00:44:50.173
Like, okay, we're going to take this thing and we're about to.

00:44:50.173 --> 00:44:59.001
I'm going to build movement on it, I'm going to build the team, I'm going to get morale and support, I'm going to get donations, I'm going to get whatever we need.

00:44:59.001 --> 00:45:06.431
I can do that, but I can't do that if I'm not trusted and I can't do that if the ball is not passed to me.

00:45:06.431 --> 00:45:09.458
Sure, and I think this also.

00:45:09.458 --> 00:45:11.282
I feel like I'm just getting answers, guys.

00:45:11.282 --> 00:45:12.492
Sorry, I'm having a personal moment.

00:45:12.492 --> 00:46:06.650
But you know, like I have been trying to figure out like why in some of my previous roles, why I've just why, why my season came to an end roles, why I've just why, why my season came to an end, and it's because I realized that they were not going to allow me to be, to be that number two and to galvanize and build and push forward and move forward, that they were going to hold on to tightly and, um, and I think it's so important that, autocratic leaders, you have to take a step, you have to step back from the vision and you have to see the team, you have to see who's on it, you have to know, understand and, as much as they respect your vision and your gifts, you have to know, understand and respect the people that have been following after you because they believe in your vision Absolutely.

00:46:07.130 --> 00:46:16.565
To take a moment, you have to step back, because it is only then that you will get some clarity on what the next step of the vision is.

00:46:16.565 --> 00:46:20.521
And a lot of autocratic leaders are living in the first step.

00:46:20.521 --> 00:46:28.945
They're living in the moment of building and so all they keep thinking about is we need to do this and we're not doing it.

00:46:28.945 --> 00:46:29.628
We're not doing it.

00:46:29.628 --> 00:46:31.353
We're not doing the things we said we were supposed to do.

00:46:31.353 --> 00:46:50.119
The vision is not complete, the thing is not done and you're not going to get any momentum on that because you have not fully acknowledged and empowered your people and a lot of times that acknowledgement and that empowerment is going to require you to let some things go.

00:46:50.119 --> 00:47:17.824
And until you have identified and letting it go, fully understanding that something might get dropped in the process, but so much more will get picked up if you allow people to just fully flourish, like understanding that that transition might be rocky but it's necessary, because the vision is never going to come to pass if it's only in your hands.

00:47:17.824 --> 00:47:20.474
No, it won't your purpose.

00:47:20.474 --> 00:47:29.780
And I think again, thank you, ruth Abigail, because Paul was a great example and we appreciate you being the biblical example you know,

00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:32.271
extraordinary on today, thank you.

00:47:32.271 --> 00:47:45.911
But I think, even looking at him, like he, you know, saying he was writing in to say, hey, y'all stay, stay with the vision, stay with the vision.

00:47:45.911 --> 00:47:47.315
Okay, I'm trusting y'all, y'all are leading.

00:47:47.315 --> 00:47:55.199
But every church had their own specific thing, own specific way that they was kind of rocking, rocking to the left and the right, and so Paul would come in and check in and be like, hey, that ain't what I told y'all to do.

00:47:55.199 --> 00:47:58.277
Yeah, that was not the vision, that's not.

00:47:58.277 --> 00:48:00.501
That is not how God is leading this thing.

00:48:00.501 --> 00:48:07.454
And I think not how God is leading this thing.

00:48:07.454 --> 00:48:10.242
And I think and and that that is such a, a, a great example of autocratic leadership and how it can be healthy.

00:48:10.242 --> 00:48:11.606
But you have to, you have to pass the ball.

00:48:12.130 --> 00:48:18.461
Two things that I think um, and I'll, I'll, we, if we, we might end here.

00:48:18.461 --> 00:48:28.425
I don't know if we may or may not, but you, you tell me but like two things that I really think in my personal leadership has really helped being a builder.

00:48:28.425 --> 00:48:34.052
Now, I don't have an autocratic mentality, but I'm not mentality, personality, like my.

00:48:34.052 --> 00:48:38.617
Well, you know what, you know what I might, but I try to be nice.

00:48:38.617 --> 00:48:39.942
You know what I'm saying.

00:48:40.931 --> 00:48:42.797
We ain't saying autocratic people couldn't be nice.

00:48:42.797 --> 00:48:43.773
That's absolutely right.

00:48:43.773 --> 00:48:44.349
So you're right.

00:48:44.349 --> 00:48:45.112
I think you have.

00:48:45.112 --> 00:48:46.635
I think you have an inclination.

00:48:46.635 --> 00:48:48.000
I think I do.

00:48:48.300 --> 00:49:02.260
Yeah, you have an inclination because I don't want to come across as a jerk, but I do have particular things that I and I do and I think my, I think the teams that I've I've led have definitely like hinted at hey, we got it or hey, y'all have to keep checking in.

00:49:02.420 --> 00:49:06.373
Hey, right, and I feel like every episode Rueveb's gonna be like.

00:49:06.914 --> 00:49:07.976
I identify with this.

00:49:07.976 --> 00:49:17.983
I mean, honestly, it really is kind of like you know I'm becoming more self-aware, but, um, two things that have helped me to uh pivot.

00:49:17.983 --> 00:49:24.782
Um, I don't know about the pivot pivot who I am as a leader to fit the season, that needs to be.

00:49:24.782 --> 00:49:48.505
Um is as a builder and I, I am a builder, so I do have, like, when and when I'm building something like there is this, like no, no, no, it needs to be this, this is, this is what we're, this is where we're going, um, and it is uh, so, as a, that is currently I'm a builder in the seat of an optimizer.

00:49:48.505 --> 00:49:52.541
That's what's happening right now in the organization.

00:49:52.541 --> 00:50:09.311
But what has helped me to pivot is to embrace the newness of things to build Within the seat, things to build within the seat.

00:50:09.311 --> 00:50:13.019
So, if you can, there are there are things about about Angel Street that are that that, quite frankly, I have contributed to building.

00:50:13.019 --> 00:50:14.603
That are built.

00:50:14.603 --> 00:50:19.440
They don't need changing, they don't need innovation, it's what it is.

00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:21.833
What they need is somebody to come in and scale it.

00:50:21.833 --> 00:50:24.702
Then there are things about Angel Street that are new.

00:50:25.650 --> 00:50:36.983
Most things in the last several years that were new came from my brain and simply because the way that I think is to do the new thing.

00:50:36.983 --> 00:50:44.521
What I had to learn was don't sabotage the old thing building a new thing.

00:50:44.521 --> 00:50:45.983
So what do I have to do?

00:50:45.983 --> 00:50:50.222
I have to give the old things away and me focus on the new thing.

00:50:50.222 --> 00:50:53.994
But if I focus on the new thing, I won't be so preoccupied with the old thing.

00:50:53.994 --> 00:50:56.601
The problem is, people don't have a new thing.

00:50:56.601 --> 00:51:03.340
You're not focusing on your new thing and the thing is, as a builder, you always have new things.

00:51:03.340 --> 00:51:08.715
So go do that right, don't stifle that because you're trying to hold on.

00:51:08.715 --> 00:51:16.666
So that has really helped me to really lean in and become a learner again, because I'm learning how to do things.

00:51:16.666 --> 00:51:17.969
I get to be a student.

00:51:18.972 --> 00:51:21.335
I get to become a novice again at something.

00:51:21.335 --> 00:51:24.302
I really don't know what I'm doing and that preoccupies me.

00:51:24.302 --> 00:51:28.172
To be like, hey, they got this, I don't have to worry about that, but these other things?

00:51:28.172 --> 00:51:31.079
It's like, yo, I have these ideas, but I really don't know how to execute them.

00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:31.561
I need help.

00:51:31.561 --> 00:51:34.398
I really don't know how to go about doing this.

00:51:34.398 --> 00:51:36.474
I don't know what the steps are to this.

00:51:36.474 --> 00:51:37.478
I've never done this before.

00:51:37.478 --> 00:51:45.536
Organizations haven haven't really leaned into this before.

00:51:45.536 --> 00:51:46.500
I can't really talk to anybody about it.

00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:50.592
That's how I move and it takes me away from the like, the, the necessity to say to, to want to oversee the things that are really established.

00:51:50.592 --> 00:51:53.159
So that is, that's one thing.

00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:58.039
I think the other thing, um, that has, that has really helped me.

00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:02.773
What, oh shoot, did I lose it?

00:52:02.773 --> 00:52:04.456
Dadgummit, I think think I lost it.

00:52:05.059 --> 00:52:14.260
This moment is brought to you by middle adult oh man, I definitely did she lose it?

00:52:14.260 --> 00:52:15.402
Yes, she did.

00:52:15.402 --> 00:52:16.623
Will she get it back?

00:52:16.804 --> 00:52:37.233
if she looks up at the ceiling long enough, it might float back down to her yeah, um, yeah, I don't know that we will, but but yeah, I don't want to linger, but I do think that that has been helpful for me as somebody who is a leader, who's a builder, who is actually sitting in an optimizer position so that I don't pile on new things to the old thing.

00:52:37.233 --> 00:52:49.378
I have to find my new direction and lean into that, and lean into the things that I know that that will benefit the organization, that are what we've never done before.

00:52:49.378 --> 00:52:50.780
I'm doing that.

00:52:50.780 --> 00:52:54.074
Let me do that because that's my, that's my strength yeah.

00:52:54.255 --> 00:52:56.478
I need to stay away from the other thing, right?

00:52:57.161 --> 00:53:04.545
um yeah so I think again as that, as that optimizer, I really am resonating with that.

00:53:04.545 --> 00:53:11.286
I mean, I have been in places where I've been a builder but really I'm building to get to optimizing.

00:53:11.286 --> 00:53:13.351
Yeah, like I'm like all right, here's an idea.

00:53:13.351 --> 00:53:18.028
All right, now let me get my team together, let me get my thoughts together.

00:53:18.028 --> 00:53:19.592
All right, what do you guys think we should do?

00:53:19.612 --> 00:53:22.097
that is okay, now yeah immediately.

00:53:22.117 --> 00:53:26.436
That's like my, that's my go-to like when I have a vision, it's okay.

00:53:27.097 --> 00:53:28.842
Who can I bring around to do this?

00:53:28.842 --> 00:53:31.512
What are all the parts and pieces of it?

00:53:31.512 --> 00:53:39.813
Because I need to be in a place where I'm galvanizing, where I'm developing, where I'm scaling, where I'm like all right, like right now.

00:53:39.813 --> 00:53:43.297
My job is I create orientation programs.

00:53:43.297 --> 00:53:56.449
The school has been doing orientation programs for you know, since the school was a thing, probably Right.

00:53:56.489 --> 00:53:58.173
But my mind is like how can we do this in a way that's going to be more impactful?

00:53:58.173 --> 00:54:04.496
Yeah, I want the people to leave inspired, I want them to experience orientation like they've never experienced it before, and that's my lane.

00:54:04.496 --> 00:54:23.239
Yep, that is my lane is how do we take something and I'm also like, even in my like normal conversations, how do I take something that seems regular to people and I'm like, nah, I can make this thing so profound, so amazing, and I can scale the way that you think about it.

00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:30.204
You know, and I think, if you are an autocratic leader, look for your scaler, look for your.

00:54:30.204 --> 00:54:35.096
You need to find your developer, your optimizer.

00:54:35.096 --> 00:54:36.039
What was you calling it?

00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:36.619
Optimizer?

00:54:36.619 --> 00:54:38.452
Yeah, you need to find your optimizer.

00:54:38.612 --> 00:54:44.960
Yes, and I think that was the second thing I was going to say actually was was find your, find the person who can scale what you're doing.

00:54:45.240 --> 00:54:45.963
Find your optimizer.

00:54:45.963 --> 00:54:47.791
You need to partner with that person.

00:54:47.791 --> 00:54:54.007
You need to partner with that person Partner, partner, partner.

00:54:54.007 --> 00:54:57.315
Partner doesn't mean I tell the optimizer what to do.

00:54:57.315 --> 00:54:59.900
No Partner.

00:54:59.940 --> 00:55:07.673
That's correct Partner doesn't mean I watch and helicopter over the optimizer to make sure they do it in the way that I would do it.

00:55:07.673 --> 00:55:21.204
They're not going to the optimizer is not going to do it the way you would do it Right, because they're not a builder Right and you have to trust and, I think, autocratic leadership.

00:55:21.204 --> 00:55:27.637
I think one of the things that they might lack a little is trust.

00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:31.072
For sure, that's a huge deficit.

00:55:32.777 --> 00:55:35.061
Yes, yeah, you lack trust.

00:55:35.061 --> 00:55:45.204
Yeah, you lack trust and you lack an ability to allow somebody else, because you treat everything.

00:55:45.204 --> 00:55:50.742
I don't know if you treat everything like your baby, but you treat everything like it's yours.

00:55:50.742 --> 00:56:04.697
And I think if you can be like Paul and say this is the Lord's church, this is the Lord's idea, this is the Lord's vision, and it can travel to somebody else's hands.

00:56:04.697 --> 00:56:07.503
It came back, I came back.

00:56:07.503 --> 00:56:11.693
I told y'all Middle of the moments it always comes back baby.

00:56:11.974 --> 00:56:36.565
That's right, yes, paul, okay, so the idea like this is Paul really transitioned once he built the thing and I'm using this word loosely, but he kind of transitioned into like a consultant, right, he started to help people maintain what was built so he could see what it's like.

00:56:36.565 --> 00:56:40.795
Hey, uh, nah, like you need to do it like this, right, or?

00:56:40.795 --> 00:56:43.541
There's a gap here, so how about do?

00:56:43.581 --> 00:56:47.074
this, here's this tool, but he didn't go and he didn't go run it.

00:56:47.074 --> 00:56:50.670
He didn't go say hey everybody, I gotta come back this is y'all all right?

00:56:50.771 --> 00:56:51.753
everybody sit down.

00:56:51.753 --> 00:56:54.420
I got it because y'all were never gonna get answered.

00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:55.882
He answered questions.

00:56:55.882 --> 00:56:58.597
Right, he answered questions.

00:56:58.597 --> 00:57:03.092
He became somebody you could come like hey, we're having this issue, can you help us?

00:57:03.092 --> 00:57:04.771
Yes, I can do that right.

00:57:04.771 --> 00:57:09.382
Um, and then he would give the context around why he's asked that is man.

00:57:09.382 --> 00:57:16.070
I hope to set somebody free that is a great place to pivot if you're an autocratic leader and you've built something.

00:57:16.070 --> 00:57:21.900
Pivot to a consultant, pivot to somebody to a coach, to a coach pivot.

00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:29.393
Yes, you know, I'm saying back up, yeah like no, I'm serious because you are wearing.

00:57:29.413 --> 00:57:31.376
You are wearing yourself out.

00:57:31.376 --> 00:57:37.876
Yeah, and and that's what I meant to say when we were talking earlier about it the autocratic leadership style.

00:57:37.876 --> 00:57:41.751
If you stay in that place of I gotta do everything.

00:57:41.751 --> 00:57:44.581
Everything has to come from me, all All my ideas, all my thoughts.

00:57:44.581 --> 00:57:45.795
Nobody else is going to do it like me.

00:57:45.815 --> 00:57:49.121
You get tired, you are wearing yourself out.

00:57:49.141 --> 00:57:50.085
Yes, yes, yes.

00:57:50.085 --> 00:58:02.760
And you are operating under this misaligned idea that, because you are the one with the vision, that nobody else will be able to carry it out.

00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:08.793
But the Bible says that if you give them the vision, the people will run with it.

00:58:08.793 --> 00:58:12.802
Let them have it, let them run.

00:58:12.802 --> 00:58:13.844
You're not the runner.

00:58:13.844 --> 00:58:17.373
You know what I'm saying?

00:58:17.373 --> 00:58:20.396
You trying to create the vision and run with it.

00:58:20.396 --> 00:58:24.501
Do you know how much energy you just expended creating it?

00:58:24.501 --> 00:58:27.626
You don't have to run with it too.

00:58:27.626 --> 00:58:35.179
That's why we are the body of Christ, and the head can't do what the shoulder do, what the arm do, what the wrist do.

00:58:38.112 --> 00:58:44.773
Your job, and this is something I'm learning literally right now, and this is something I think Paul did.

00:58:44.773 --> 00:58:49.132
He wrote letters, he wrote down, he wrote he wrote instruction.

00:58:49.132 --> 00:58:50.795
He wrote it down.

00:58:50.795 --> 00:58:52.460
Write it down.

00:58:52.460 --> 00:58:59.679
Write your stuff down, stop trying to tell people stop trying to go and do things on the spot and execute.

00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:00.420
That's not your job.

00:59:00.420 --> 00:59:03.478
Write it down, give it to them, let them figure it out.

00:59:03.478 --> 00:59:11.072
That's where, that's where your.

00:59:11.072 --> 00:59:12.880
I think, that's where our strength is better, is better used right.

00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:13.925
If you create, you create documents create them.

00:59:13.945 --> 00:59:14.527
You know what I'm saying.

00:59:14.527 --> 00:59:20.262
Like go ahead and do it so that people have the resources to then optimize and or fix.

00:59:20.262 --> 00:59:23.114
Like pivot your energy into that.

00:59:23.114 --> 00:59:31.313
Right, and when it's written, that becomes a standard operating procedure, come on, like this is this is the standard, because who just made 14 of those?

00:59:31.313 --> 00:59:33.900
Yes, that was me.

00:59:33.900 --> 00:59:34.322
I did it.

00:59:34.322 --> 00:59:35.246
I made 14 SOPs.

00:59:35.246 --> 00:59:36.148
I was like what she talking about.

00:59:36.148 --> 00:59:37.413
I was like, did Paul?

00:59:37.454 --> 00:59:38.277
have 14 letters.

00:59:38.277 --> 00:59:47.771
No, I was confused.

00:59:47.771 --> 00:59:48.311
That's hilarious.

00:59:48.311 --> 00:59:50.396
I mean, I think that that's so key.

00:59:50.396 --> 01:00:01.840
And even when you look at, you know, as Steve Jobs like you know who a highly innovative, you know his vision was so precise and you know we got all these products that everybody loves.

01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:06.581
And you know, if you are an Apple, you know believer what they call it the Apple-stolic.

01:00:06.581 --> 01:00:12.382
If you are Apple-stolic, like a Apple-stolic.

01:00:12.630 --> 01:00:17.822
If you are Apple-stolic, you know like you are like this is the best of the best.

01:00:17.822 --> 01:00:20.518
You know, people who use MacBooks are like man.

01:00:20.518 --> 01:00:21.440
No the MacBook.

01:00:21.440 --> 01:00:32.331
Because, see, when I first got the MacBook, I was like what, who built this?

01:00:32.331 --> 01:00:32.913
Who developed this?

01:00:32.913 --> 01:00:34.536
But there's such a high level of, there's a high standard on these.

01:00:34.536 --> 01:00:37.722
We can debate about the innovation, but it's built with a high standard.

01:00:37.722 --> 01:00:47.375
One reason why I have stuck with an iPhone is because people know I was known for breaking a phone I mean phone shattered the pieces.

01:00:47.375 --> 01:00:51.362
Very true, these iPhones, Yep, Durable, Sturdy.

01:00:51.362 --> 01:00:54.233
Okay, you know they're built well.

01:00:54.233 --> 01:00:58.971
They may not do all the things the Androids do, but it ain't broke on me yet.

01:00:58.990 --> 01:01:17.940
Okay, it hang tough with me, you know, but when you think about all of the benefits of jobs and he was I mean, he was such an innovative leader and has such a high standard but when you look at what it was like to work in that place right, they were, they were not.

01:01:17.940 --> 01:01:20.512
This is not Google, right, people weren't running.

01:01:20.512 --> 01:01:21.514
This is not Yahoo.

01:01:21.514 --> 01:01:24.851
Okay, people were not excited to be there, right?

01:01:24.851 --> 01:01:26.860
So there was high employee turnover.

01:01:27.362 --> 01:01:37.083
You know, they were known to have like a toxic workplace reputation and I think one of the things that autocratic leaders can miss out on.

01:01:37.083 --> 01:02:01.806
If you do not, if you do not take a step back from the vision and see the people, you will, you will lose the benefit of collaboration and some of the things that those Democratic leaders if you watch the last episode, some of those things that those Democratic leadership styles are easily getting right there they're getting the best out of their team.

01:02:01.806 --> 01:02:22.054
You're not going to get the best out of your team, and I think what you said was so key, ruth Abigail, in that you have to be able to transition to a coaching realm in what you're doing and you also have to make sure that you know what's important about the vision.

01:02:22.054 --> 01:02:25.943
The impact of the vision is important.

01:02:25.943 --> 01:02:29.960
The excellence and the standards of the vision is important.

01:02:29.960 --> 01:02:36.382
Some of the other stuff that you're holding on to may not actually be the vision it may be your preference.

01:02:37.090 --> 01:02:39.514
And you have to be able to parse out.

01:02:39.514 --> 01:02:44.563
Where did I go in and insert my preference into the purpose?

01:02:44.563 --> 01:03:06.036
That's correct and you have to be able to separate those and I think once you do that, you can allow people, you can pass the ball and they may not do what you prefer, but they may still be aligned with the purpose, the mission, the values and the standards of what you've built the mission, the values and the standards of what you've built.

01:03:06.097 --> 01:03:08.523
And there you have it, folks autocratic leadership.

01:03:08.563 --> 01:03:12.335
Man, our thoughts on autocratic leadership, y'all this stuff be getting deeper than we be planning.

01:03:12.375 --> 01:03:14.280
I'm gonna tell you that it do, it do.

01:03:14.340 --> 01:03:25.121
We said we was gonna be done in 50 minutes you said 40 minutes and I said yeah right, I did, I did I thought we were, but but we, we, we did it in a reasonable amount of time.

01:03:25.121 --> 01:03:27.614
We said we need to say amen, um.

01:03:27.614 --> 01:03:33.012
So, yeah, I think this is, uh, I hope, y'all enjoying this, this, I hope you've enjoyed this conversation.

01:03:33.012 --> 01:03:40.436
We, um I really like having this conversation about leadership, so y'all, uh, yeah, this is really good and I think it's helping me.

01:03:40.436 --> 01:03:44.724
Hopefully it's helping you, and we will be back next week.

01:03:44.724 --> 01:03:51.581
So until then, we're going to keep on unlearning together so that we can experience more freedom.

01:03:51.581 --> 01:03:53.284
Bye y'all.

01:03:58.030 --> 01:04:00.938
Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast.

01:04:00.938 --> 01:04:05.094
We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode.

01:04:05.094 --> 01:04:11.831
Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think.

01:04:11.831 --> 01:04:18.173
We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom.

01:04:18.173 --> 01:04:19.077
See you then.