Oct. 13, 2025

What's Your Leadership Style?: UnLearning Transactional Leadership

What's Your Leadership Style?: UnLearning Transactional Leadership

Send us a text We unpack transactional leadership—why it feels natural, where it works, and when it fails—and show how to pair it with relational styles so people and performance both thrive. Clear goals help, but autonomy, mastery, and purpose keep teams engaged and growing. • definition of transactional leadership and its roots in school rewards • where transactional systems fit: scale, sustaining growth, clear metrics • strengths: clarity, consistency, fast runway for new hires • weakness...

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We unpack transactional leadership—why it feels natural, where it works, and when it fails—and show how to pair it with relational styles so people and performance both thrive. Clear goals help, but autonomy, mastery, and purpose keep teams engaged and growing.

• definition of transactional leadership and its roots in school rewards
• where transactional systems fit: scale, sustaining growth, clear metrics
• strengths: clarity, consistency, fast runway for new hires
• weaknesses: micromanagement, pressure, shallow incentives
• autonomy, mastery, purpose as durable motivators
• pairing transactional with servant, transformational, and democratic styles
• co‑creating goals versus top‑down mandates
• producer‑to‑leader shift and ambition with boundaries
• organization‑first vs team‑first bias and how to balance
• whole‑self leadership and avoiding the pizza‑party trap

We want you to like, share, and subscribe, okay? Become a part of the community, you know. Unlearn with us… Share and subscribe. If you like the clip, like the clip. Hit the like button.


00:00 - Setting The Stage: Freedom & Flow

01:42 - From To‑Do Lists To Leadership Pivots

02:50 - Defining Transactional Leadership

05:40 - School Rewards And Early Conditioning

09:05 - Where Transactional Fits In Organizations

12:40 - Systems, Scale, And Clear Expectations

15:45 - When Incentives Miss Motivation

18:05 - Autonomy, Mastery, Purpose Over Money

21:10 - Pairing Styles: Transactional Plus Relational

25:05 - Goals You Co‑Create Versus Mandates

28:10 - New Hires, Runways, And Micromanagement

31:20 - Selling Cars And Measuring What Matters

34:00 - Ambition, Boundaries, And Mentors

37:20 - Promoted Producer To People Leader

41:10 - Know Your Bias: Org Or Team First

44:00 - Avoiding The Pizza‑Party Trap

46:40 - Career Fit And Leadership Identity

49:40 - Whole Self Leadership, Not Silos

53:00 - Series Wrap And Community CTA

WEBVTT

00:00:04.959 --> 00:00:09.519
Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to the Unlearnt Podcast.

00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.240
I am your host, Ruth Abigail, aka R A.

00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:13.759
What's up, friends?

00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:14.960
It's your girl, Jaquita.

00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:22.399
And this, folks, is the podcast that's helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that you can experience more freedom.

00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:24.960
More freedom on the way, friends.

00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:26.239
Freedom.

00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:28.399
Freedom.

00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:30.239
My lord.

00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:30.800
Yeah.

00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:31.920
More freedom.

00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.200
Um, and uh uh Quita, how you doing today?

00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:37.359
Man, today's been a great day.

00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:42.880
You know, I got I've been in a super productive season out here in these streets, you know.

00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:43.520
We like that.

00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:45.840
Just getting things done, knocking them out.

00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:46.479
I love that.

00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:48.479
Knocking tasks out, you know.

00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.759
My to-do list is she getting shorter and shorter.

00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:55.119
And that makes me feel really good about myself because that's not my norm.

00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:56.000
Okay.

00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:57.200
It's not my norm.

00:00:57.439 --> 00:00:58.000
That's good.

00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:00.399
Oh, I'm we're on a roll right now.

00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:01.280
We are on a roll.

00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:02.079
I love that for you.

00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:02.719
That's amazing.

00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.319
Um, how about yourself?

00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:05.200
Oh, great.

00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:18.560
My my to-do list doesn't seem to really get be getting shorter, but I do tick things off that are necessary to tick off, and but then I look back and I'm like, oh, but three more have just been added.

00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:19.280
You know what I mean?

00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:20.480
Oh my lord.

00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:24.000
But that's okay, because you know, I I like it.

00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:25.359
I have no problem with that.

00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:27.439
You know, it keeps me going, you know.

00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:31.920
Um, so you know, I have a I have a rhythm, you know what I'm saying?

00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:37.840
I have a kind of a system that I work, and that to-do list is part of that.

00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.439
Uh so yeah, yeah, but pretty good.

00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:43.680
Speaking of rhythms and systems, you see what has it there?

00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:44.719
I'm just gonna make that pivot.

00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:46.239
Come on, pivot.

00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:47.439
Come on, I'm proud.

00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:49.840
That's a very natural pivot.

00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:50.640
Go ahead and do it.

00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:52.319
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

00:01:52.560 --> 00:02:09.599
We are uh in our leadership um leadership style series, and today we're talking about a very familiar leadership style, which I actually think is a style that when people think about leaders um or leading something, particularly like teams and in the workplace.

00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:17.520
This is probably the style that we kind of understand the easiest because we kind of start off with it as kids, right?

00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:21.680
Like um this this idea of transactional leadership.

00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:27.360
Um, like it's a very parental style of leadership, very parental, right?

00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.319
Very, we like whether it's parents, whether it's teachers.

00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:33.199
I mean, the school system is transactional.

00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:37.039
If you get an A, right, you get a piece of candy, right?

00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:41.280
Um in third grade, we had handwriting.

00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:42.639
We had like we got good.

00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:44.159
They don't do it no more.

00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:49.520
We got the big, we got the uh big candy bars for good handwriting.

00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.439
Like we had the king, you know, the king-sized candy bars.

00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:54.719
Y'all was off the chain.

00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:55.840
I already know.

00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:57.520
Guess how many candy bars?

00:02:57.680 --> 00:02:59.280
Guess how many candy bars I got?

00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:00.719
Zero, because you're zero.

00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:02.000
Not gonna lie about it.

00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:03.520
Not gonna lie about it.

00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:06.479
And I got no big candy bars, like no, no lie.

00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:07.599
I never could get it.

00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:14.479
There was this one girl, her name was Amy, and Amy sounds like she has beautiful handwriting.

00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:16.719
I really didn't like her, right?

00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:18.240
For like I'm sure you did it.

00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:22.879
Because I was like, how do you get she could do a little bubble, like bubbly letter?

00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:24.560
I was like, that's not fair.

00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:26.240
Like, I who cares?

00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.039
But she always got the best, the the big candy bar.

00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.879
She always got praised for her for her for handwriting.

00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:40.639
I was like, dude, I sound like you know, I I honestly feel like it's it's almost a little unfair because handwriting is almost something you can't get.

00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:41.680
That's what I'm saying.

00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:47.360
You know, like I feel like you can, you know, now through the years, I ain't gonna lie.

00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:52.000
Your girl, I spent a lot of time working on my handwriting.

00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:56.800
Like, I would during the summers when I was bored, I would just sit there and write the alphabet.

00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:01.439
And I was like, oh, this year I'm gonna do my E's like this, and I'm gonna cross my T's like this.

00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:01.759
Really?

00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:06.560
They're not ready for how I'm gonna loop-dee-de-loop this cute, okay.

00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:10.719
Listen, I spent my time, okay.

00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:12.560
Congratulations to you.

00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:14.560
Because I wanted, I wanted pretty handwriting.

00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:20.800
I wanted when somebody, and also I had a friend, he had the neatest handwriting.

00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:22.639
Yeah, like it was beautiful.

00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:27.360
Yeah, and I was the girl in the group, and so I didn't want to be outdone.

00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:36.079
So yeah, I practice and my handwriting, my signature, I mean, I ain't gonna show y'all because I don't need y'all stealing my signature, but my signature, top tier.

00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:36.959
Well, you know what?

00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:37.600
Good for you.

00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:45.360
And um, so you you would have gotten the big candy bar, but I never got the big candy bar, and I was always very salty about that.

00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:49.439
But you know, um, we got to uh we did like the summer reading stuff.

00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:50.720
Did y'all do summer reading?

00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:55.360
And you got absolutely so you got like certain things for reading some number of books.

00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.240
I mean, this this idea, no, but you did.

00:04:58.319 --> 00:04:58.720
What did you get?

00:04:58.800 --> 00:04:59.279
I forgot about it.

00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:01.279
Y'all were really into this transactional.

00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:03.439
We were, they gave us a lot of stuff.

00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:06.399
No, this was not my uh this was not my school upbringing.

00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.360
You didn't get nothing, you got a test when you came back.

00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:10.480
All right, quiz.

00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:11.839
Who did the summer reading?

00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:12.560
Yeah, right.

00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:13.199
Yeah, sure.

00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:13.759
That's fair.

00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.680
Which is still transactional, actually.

00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:16.959
It is, that's what I'm saying.

00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:24.160
Like, you know, and and so I think like we are so familiar with this particular style because we we were birthed in it.

00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.439
Like it, it was very much a part of our childhood.

00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:34.319
And then, you know, home, you get, you know, some people get allowance for A's, you know, you got certain all of that.

00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:37.920
You could, if um Oh, now we did used to get the free pizza.

00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:39.279
Y'all remember the free pizza?

00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:41.040
You got A Bionaro?

00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:46.160
Okay, you got the free little personal pan, pizza, okay.

00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.480
I listen, my family.

00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:55.920
When it was when it was report card time, it was like, hey, which one of you, you me or my sister, is treating us to dinner tonight?

00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:56.800
Nice, okay.

00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:57.360
Like nice.

00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:01.279
I got the free pizza, I got the free frosty from Wendy's, okay.

00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.639
I got the free donuts from Krispy Kreme, okay.

00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:05.519
I got us.

00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:06.319
That's okay.

00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:09.920
I'm feeding the family tonight off of my good grades.

00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:11.439
Hilarious.

00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:13.360
But that's so, but you know what?

00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:15.839
Like, I miss those times.

00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.160
Like, it's actually it it's Yeah, nobody gives me nothing no more.

00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:22.319
No, like you get a paycheck for doing good.

00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:23.040
You know what I'm saying?

00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:24.240
That's what you get, you know?

00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.600
And or for not even doing good, you get a paycheck for doing.

00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:31.920
And you know, for doing good, you might get a little something different.

00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:36.800
But I think like that, I this this idea of you do this, you get that.

00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.439
You don't do this, you don't get that.

00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:41.839
Um, and we grew up with that.

00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:50.399
So leadership, I think the the first level of leadership that we really understand is transactional leadership.

00:06:50.639 --> 00:07:01.279
Um so because of that, I think it a lot of leaders lean into that um probably faster than the other ones because it's so familiar.

00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:08.399
Um, and like like others, you know, like all of them, it doesn't belong everywhere.

00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:23.199
And and transactional leadership really is a I would say um, I don't want this to sound like I don't want this to sound less than, but but I would call it like I would say it was it was level one leadership.

00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:24.399
That's not a bad thing.

00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:25.600
That's not a bad thing.

00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.800
It's a little disrespectful, but I get what you're saying.

00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:30.240
I'm not trying to be disrespectful.

00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:31.839
I'm not gonna put you.

00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.639
I just don't want you to think that you're not doing any harm here.

00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:38.319
I'm not trying to out here calling people level.

00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:47.040
You know, you're just a level one leader, and one thing you're gonna find another style and you can become a level let me be clear.

00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:47.920
Let me be clear.

00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.399
I'm not calling anyone level one leaders.

00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:51.199
I am saying that.

00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:53.680
She calls somebody else level one leader.

00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.639
That type of leadership because as we know, healthy leaders have to hit all of them at some point.

00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:04.480
That type of leadership I can I would consider to be kind of level one.

00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:17.279
In other words, because it's again, it's familiar and it's very like systematized and and um you know that that it's it's a it kind of just works, it just kind of works itself.

00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:26.160
Like there's there's not a there's not once you've got the system, yeah, but once you have the system in place, you do the thing and it happens, right?

00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.680
Like, and that's not a bad thing, it belongs in some areas.

00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:30.720
Yeah.

00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:36.960
So I think now's a good time for us to give just a really solid definition of transactional leadership.

00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:55.120
All right, so transactional leadership, it's really marked by uh uh a system that incentivizes positive productivity and kind of disciplines or applies consequences for substandard performance.

00:08:55.279 --> 00:09:01.360
Um, so I think that it is a rewards initiative, you know.

00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:14.240
So when you think about uh examples Ruth Abigail brought up, you know, education, you know, we wanna we wanna continue to reward good behavior, and then you might get your name on the board for bad behavior.

00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:17.600
You might get you, you know, you might get, you know, in school suspension.

00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:24.480
You know, you might get that uh what the thing is called after school when you gotta stay?

00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:25.759
Detention?

00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:29.120
Detention! You might get hilarious for bad.

00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:31.679
Listen, okay, you never got detention, did you?

00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:33.919
Uh we didn't do detention.

00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:34.320
Yeah.

00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:36.000
Yeah, I don't, I don't remember.

00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:37.600
In school suspension was their thing.

00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:38.799
They was like, pick it up.

00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:42.559
Yeah, wing, wing, but didn't nobody wannabody want to stay after school?

00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:45.120
No, you can go right now.

00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:45.919
Okay.

00:09:47.440 --> 00:10:08.960
Um, and so uh it's it's so it's gonna create an environment where we're gonna really focus on structure um and culture is built around this idea of, you know, we got goals, we're gonna set company goals, we're gonna really uh push everybody to peak performance, right?

00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:27.519
Um, and so it's really about building the productivity of team members versus necessarily some of the things the other um leadership styles were building, you know, your internal, you know, right, you're becoming, you know, this is like bump all of that.

00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:29.600
We want you to produce.

00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:34.159
And when you produce, we are going to reward what we want to see more of.

00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:39.120
When you grow, and I think this you you again, a lot of people are more familiar with this.

00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:42.559
When you're in, I mean, the corporate space, right?

00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:54.159
Corporate America, um large, larger organizations are even medium-sized or larger organizations, um, have to have this style, right?

00:10:54.240 --> 00:11:13.600
You have to have this type of style embedded into your culture because you get to a point where you don't have as a leader, you don't have the time anymore to spend right uh that kind of energy with individual people.

00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:32.720
Um, you might get to that place or you you don't uh there there the the uh the mission is uh not necessarily as as impacted by the um relational aspects of leadership, right?

00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:33.039
Yeah.

00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:38.879
Um I mean there are just there are just different, there's different cultures uh in different spaces.

00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:42.320
And and I think again size matters.

00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:48.559
Like if you if you it's different when you're leading a team of five versus 15, right?

00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:49.279
Or 20.

00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:49.919
For sure.

00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:58.559
Um all of a sudden, you gotta have you, there's there is a uh there's a different way that you have to go about doing things.

00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:02.879
And so this this is a really, really healthy thing.

00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:27.600
I think the other thing that I think about when I think about this leadership style is um is is is a structure and a framework uh that where people can what people know uh and are clear on what their uh what their production is actually producing.

00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:28.480
Yes.

00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:28.879
Right.

00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:36.559
And you're clear on what is expected of you and what success looks like in this and what's success that's exactly right.

00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:37.919
Yeah, and that's not really good.

00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:42.559
And transactional leadership, we're not asking you to create something new.

00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:43.519
Yeah, that's it.

00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:43.759
Yes.

00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:51.840
What I'm asking you is to do exactly what this company does and produce.

00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:52.879
Produce, right?

00:12:52.960 --> 00:13:05.919
Um produce when when we talked about um I don't remember what episode it was, we went through the different um uh like uh what's the word I'm looking for?

00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:09.360
The different seasons of of an organization.

00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:20.240
I'm blanking on the language, but the different seasons of an organization, you have your startup, you have your you know, turnarounds, you have uh and so you have that was a while ago, Ruth.

00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:20.960
That was a while.

00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:21.519
That was a while.

00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:22.159
Yeah, it was a while.

00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:22.559
Yeah, yeah.

00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:28.080
But we did we we talked about it, and um, but uh I one of the ones was sustaining growth, right?

00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:36.000
And so you the this is this is an example of a type of leadership style that belongs in a sustaining when you're sustaining growth.

00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:40.240
Like you're sustaining something, you're not looking to make a whole lot of change.

00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.039
The status quo has been set.

00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:45.200
This is what we do, this is how we do it.

00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:50.559
We're not we're and we're not trying to create an identity as a company.

00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:51.200
Correct.

00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:51.440
Right.

00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:52.320
You know what I'm saying?

00:13:52.480 --> 00:14:04.159
So we're not, you know, we want to be cutting edge, but really I think what it does is it takes the competition from out of the marketplace and puts it within the team.

00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:15.919
Because when you are using this transactional leadership style, it really is whichever rabbit gets to the carrot first, yeah, gets to have the reward.

00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.159
And I will tell you, I was under a transactional leadership style.

00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:21.360
Now that I think about it.

00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:21.840
Okay.

00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:22.320
All right.

00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.159
Um the organization, I'm gonna try my best not to name it.

00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:26.639
Yeah, sure.

00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.600
You know, but it was my first job out of grad school.

00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:30.159
Sure.

00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:33.279
And we would have these weekly meetings.

00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:35.519
Don't you love those?

00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:36.799
Oh my gosh.

00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:38.080
Weekly meetings.

00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:42.559
And in the weekly meetings, we would have, I I forget what they called it.

00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:47.919
It was like a wow meeting or something, like, you know, like you did something wonderful.

00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:52.639
And they would sit in those meetings and then they would give us all awards.

00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:54.799
Not all, because I rarely got them.

00:14:54.879 --> 00:15:10.240
But they would give out rewards to, you know, who got the most uh people to sign up for the organization, who got the most uh new uh clients, let's just call that, who uh got the most new community partners, and then like they were handing out rewards.

00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:14.960
They was like, you know, they were like free massage,$50 gift card, da-da-da-da-da.

00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.480
And I was sitting in there and I was like, I hate this so much.

00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:19.200
Yeah, yeah.

00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:21.120
And it did not make me try harder.

00:15:21.279 --> 00:15:26.879
I was not out there like, man, I need to, I need to roll out for that$50 gift card.

00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.440
I was just like, y'all playing in my face.

00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:35.679
Like, you know, and it and I think that there's some strengths to this, right?

00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:53.440
Because we all knew what the job was, we all knew what success looked like in that role, but it was also a lot of pressure without as much intuitive support for how we were gonna manage this.

00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:54.879
They just kept putting more.

00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:06.080
They it their answer to us whenever we weren't doing well, their answer was more structure, more, you know, more expectations, more rewards and incentives.

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.399
And it's like, yeah, yeah.

00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:22.559
I knew it was time for me to go out when they started having this weekly report where they wanted us to do like five this, get fifty, make 50 calls, uh, create five new partnerships, and da-da-da-da-da.

00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.200
And they looked at my and I never filled that report out.

00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:32.559
Yeah, one day they they went and checked the report, and they was like, just tweet a and I was like, Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and head on that.

00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:32.960
Uh-huh.

00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:37.279
I'm just I'm just gonna I ain't even gonna waste your time no more.

00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:39.519
Let me let me just go on here.

00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:49.840
That that's you, you know, okay, so I think you make a this is a good, I think, another segue into I have two things.

00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:53.279
Number one, I think transactional leadership, especially in something like that.

00:16:54.159 --> 00:17:11.519
Transactional leadership rarely doesn't work as well, I don't think, without um the presence of uh our more personable or relational type of leadership style, servant leadership, transformational leadership, even democratic leadership.

00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:18.880
Um it it it when you pair it with that, it it works, I think it works better, right?

00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:25.759
Especially when you are on teams that are a little smaller, where you are you do know each other, right?

00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.720
Um I no, that's the first thing.

00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:33.759
But the other thing is, and you said like I was not at all motivated by these incentives.

00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:48.079
And the reality is most of most people in in roles, um, uh I won't say most people in certain roles, and the one that you're describing is one of those, people are not motivated by that.

00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:53.200
I think we have to we have to rem um uh understand what really motivates people.

00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:02.720
Um I I heard a TED talk and um one day and I used to teach this uh to uh uh youth workers when I was training them uh years ago.

00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:08.799
But um there are three things that really motivate people.

00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.839
Uh we think money motivates.

00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:13.680
Uh that's our first thing, right?

00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:15.519
Money incentives, you know.

00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.279
If you do this much, you get this much.

00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:18.799
If you do this, you that all that.

00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:20.559
Uh we think that that's what it is.

00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:22.400
That's really not it.

00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:25.839
Money motivates in two two uh situations.

00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.640
Number one, it motivates when you don't have enough of it.

00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:32.960
If you're not paying somebody enough, then yeah, money's a motivator.

00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:42.960
Um the other situation is when you're not doing something that is very mentally involved.

00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:43.680
Okay.

00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:52.079
Um, and so money can be a motivator for something where where you are really just kind of uh doing the task, right?

00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.759
Like this is just what you do.

00:18:54.000 --> 00:19:03.440
Um uh if it you you're uh uh physical, like a lot of physical labor, like where you're doing things like that, money can be a motivator.

00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:12.720
You're not really doing a whole lot mentally, you're not having to um uh expend a lot of emotion, right, in your in your in your work.

00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:16.720
Um construction workers, things like this, right?

00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:21.039
Like things, things where your hands are involved more uh the most.

00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.839
Money can be a decent motivator there.

00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:50.319
Outside of that, the uh motive the three things that really motivate people are autonomy, the ability to control what you do, mastery, the ability to perfect something, um, and the purpose, uh, the um you know the understanding your reason behind doing something.

00:19:51.119 --> 00:20:11.759
So when you can have those things and in in a in a workplace, that is more motivating for most people, again, out that are that that uh where a lot of their labor isn't necessarily physical, um that's where they find more motivation than the incentives that the incentive package.

00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:30.480
And I think like, you know, if you think about your example at your previous uh place of employment, um you know if you had those things, if you could opt out, if you could just do what you do and not have to do this report, right?

00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:35.200
If you could um set your own goals, right?

00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:35.599
Yeah.

00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:50.559
Like, hey, I think I can get like I'd like to try to get five partnerships this this semester, but you say that as opposed to them, there that that it it is more of an incentive to do it, as opposed to somebody telling you, I want you to get this many.

00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:58.559
What what what ended up happening was because they started telling us how to do our jobs, yeah.

00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.440
They were like, all right, this is what y'all are gonna do.

00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:06.160
You're gonna call five corporate sponsors a week.

00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.680
And I was like, I'm gonna do what?

00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:13.440
Yeah first of all, let me again, this was my first job outside of grad school.

00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:15.599
My pay started with a three.

00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:16.240
Yeah.

00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.920
And not a high three.

00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:19.599
Okay.

00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.200
Y'all have gonna run me ragged.

00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:23.759
Yeah.

00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:24.079
Yeah.

00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:25.200
You know what I'm saying?

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:32.960
Like, and telling me I need to make 50 calls every week when I this is on top of what I actually do.

00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.640
Absolutely not.

00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:36.720
Yeah no, I won't be doing that.

00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:37.200
Yeah.

00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:50.400
Um, and so what happened was was that they pushed so hard for us to do that, that my creativity, my innovation, everything that's good about me.

00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.079
Yeah, it dwindled.

00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:52.480
Yeah.

00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:00.960
And they wanted us to kind of fit the mold of this robotic, you know, community manager.

00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:05.599
And it was like, this, this is not, this ain't this, this is not me.

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:08.160
You know, it's like David trying to wear Goliath's armor.

00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:08.640
There you go.

00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:10.160
I can't do that.

00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:11.119
Yeah.

00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.079
So sorry.

00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:18.799
Um, and also I I I really felt unheard in that commun in that in that organization.

00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:32.640
And I think that that's trans that transact that is a kind of pitfall for transactional leadership, is because anything that goes against the set order of things, it's really hard to hear.

00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.359
Because it's gonna be honestly really hard to change.

00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:35.839
Yeah.

00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:44.240
And you know, and I think honestly, I think transactional leadership, when I think of it, I'm thinking of it like existing within a system.

00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.680
Okay, and not there just being one transactional leader.

00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:50.400
Because a transactional leader, it's hierarchical.

00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:51.839
Yeah, hierarchical.

00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:53.839
Hierarchical.

00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:54.960
Yeah, there you go.

00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.519
You got hierarchy, all right?

00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:05.759
You know, and so like your transactional leader is is reporting up to somebody that has agreed to the transaction.

00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:06.640
Correct, correct.

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.240
Who is reporting up to somebody that has agreed to the transaction?

00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:11.359
That's right, that's right.

00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:11.759
Right.

00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:22.960
And so if you come in as an employee that doesn't have that transaction mindset, that mindset of, you know, yeah, man, I'm gonna work hard for the money.

00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:27.599
You know, I believe in, you know, I'm I'm naturally goal-oriented.

00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:41.839
I think in order to thrive under a transactional leader, you have to be somebody that is already like um uh uh uh goal achievement oriented.

00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:42.720
Right?

00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:43.759
And I'm not.

00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:44.240
Yeah.

00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.880
And it took me a while to figure that out.

00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:47.359
Yeah.

00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:53.519
When someone puts a goal in front of me and says, hey, you know, if you work hard, you can get this.

00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:53.920
Yeah.

00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.279
I'm gonna look at it and be like, oh, uh, why?

00:23:57.440 --> 00:23:58.960
Yeah, why is that important?

00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:01.519
Yeah, why should I, why should I want this?

00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:04.480
You know, I'm not like, yeah, man, something to go after.

00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.640
No, how does this help other people?

00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:08.960
How is this gonna help me to become?

00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:12.079
I'm all about a becoming, I'm not about a doing.

00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:21.359
So if you come at me and say, hey, I'm gonna help you be better at your doing, I'm gonna say, Well, well, how can you help me become better?

00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.400
And if you can't, then I'm gonna be like, All right, well, thank you.

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:24.799
Yep.

00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:25.359
Uh-huh.

00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:25.680
Yeah.

00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:44.960
You know, but that's but I had to learn that about myself because I could not figure out, you know, this is this is you're talking to the girl who went to a great undergraduate school, went to a great uh graduate school program, had a lot of success in everything I had ever done.

00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:52.960
And then in this first job outside of being in school, it wasn't just like, oh, I'm not used to working.

00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:54.240
It was, what?

00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.440
This transactional style, I went to divinity school.

00:24:57.599 --> 00:24:57.920
Right.

00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:01.200
There's no transactions in divinity school.

00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:01.519
Yeah.

00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:02.480
You know what I'm saying?

00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:06.319
We're like, hey, did you did you help someone believe?

00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:06.720
Yeah.

00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:10.240
Did you help lead somebody to to the Lord?

00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:10.640
Yeah.

00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:20.799
How do you, you know, my entire mindset, my entire mind frame was I I'm moving, everything I do is to make people and organizations better.

00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:21.039
Yeah.

00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:25.039
And then I come into a system where they're like, we don't need you to make us better.

00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.720
We need you to fulfill the goals for the day.

00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:29.039
Yeah.

00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:32.160
And don't ask us any questions and don't say anything else.

00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:35.680
I was like, everything about who I am is trained against that.

00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:47.279
And so I think if you are a transactional leader, I think the biggest thing, the biggest point of us going through the leadership styles is so that you know that one day your leadership style will not work with someone.

00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:48.240
That's right.

00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:49.599
It will not work.

00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:53.200
It just like I had to learn that my leadership style didn't work with somebody.

00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:56.160
Because I thought I thought I had one that could go with anybody.

00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:01.519
I was like, everybody needs to become, everybody needs to be transformed.

00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:04.480
And then someone came and they were like, don't care.

00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:06.559
I'm achievement oriented.

00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:06.880
Yeah.

00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:07.119
Yeah.

00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.039
I want the recognition.

00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:09.359
Yeah.

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:18.480
You know, when we did strengths quests, one of my uh his uh one of his strengths was uh, oh my goodness, I forget the name of it.

00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.599
It's like self-import, like important significance.

00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:24.799
One of his strengths was significance.

00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:30.720
He wanted to be significant, he wanted to be known for something.

00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:31.039
Yeah.

00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:34.559
He wanted to do something at the level to where it would be recognized.

00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:35.279
Right.

00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:42.400
Transform transformational leadership is not gonna fit that as well as trans as well as transactional.

00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:43.680
I mean, as well as transactional.

00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:44.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:46.319
Yeah, that's yeah, no, you're right.

00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:51.599
And I I I love what you're I I think what you're what you're hitting on is so important.

00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:56.799
Um, understanding who who you have on your team.

00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:01.920
Like, and this is also uh again a good reason to learn how to pivot.

00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.400
You have to learn how to pivot into certain styles.

00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:12.640
Um, I have someone on my team who would be who is more transactional in in in how she how she thinks.

00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:15.759
And that's that's great.

00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:16.799
I have no problem with that.

00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:21.519
Like, um, I then I have somebody who's absolutely not she's more like you, right?

00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:26.880
She is all about like I want to be better, help me to be better, right?

00:27:27.039 --> 00:27:31.599
Yeah, um, and and so you have to learn how to navigate that tension.

00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:53.519
Um, I again the transactional system, I almost think like and you may have said it, I don't know, I I don't remember exactly how you said it, but when you whatever you say earlier, there's something you said earlier that made me think about um this that I've interpreted in my mind, like tr the transactional leader is is within a system.

00:27:53.920 --> 00:28:04.799
I I I I don't I almost don't even know if I would label somebody as a transactional leader as much as you have leaders in transactional systems.

00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:05.839
Yeah.

00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:11.119
And you're kind of put in that position to check boxes, right?

00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:12.960
Because that's what's expected of you.

00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:20.720
Because, like you said, the hierarchy says, uh, hey, we need you to do this, and then it's your job to make sure that the team gets this done, right?

00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:23.359
And then you're judged based on what the team does.

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:25.279
So you have to put that in place.

00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:33.839
Um so you can still be you can be a transformative leader in a transactional system.

00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:45.039
You can be a democratic leader in a transactional system, you can be a servant leader in a transactional system, you can pair more relational styles with this system.

00:28:45.519 --> 00:29:06.799
Yeah it it really is just a matter of understanding who you're working with, uh, and and understanding like and also under understanding how to um uh allow for the people who you are who are who are under your leadership to speak into uh this the certain that speak into certain things.

00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:14.960
So I think like one of the things that we do um at Angel Street is is we have uh two sets of goals.

00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.000
We have our goals and then we have your goals, right?

00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:23.200
And so they there are there are goals we set together, like what we call high-level goals.

00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:25.200
We set them at the beginning of each semester.

00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:28.079
And and I have them speak into it, right?

00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:29.119
At some some.

00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:30.480
I won't say all of them.

00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:32.079
Some are just this is what it is.

00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:33.519
We got it.

00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:35.039
This is our this is the system.

00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:36.799
We're gonna need to change it.

00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:49.920
So there are some that change every, you know, every year, you know, depending on, you know, like how many girls do we need to recruit based on um based on the number that we would like to see at the end of the year, how many do we need to recruit in the fall, right?

00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:54.160
And um, and and you know, this particular year we have more space.

00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.759
So we have the opportunity to recruit more girls.

00:29:58.160 --> 00:29:59.680
So how what is that number?

00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:05.839
And I let them speak into that so that for for them, because they're the ones that are gonna do the recruiting, not me.

00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:07.920
And so I don't want to give it to them.

00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:09.359
You say it, right?

00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:13.119
But then we do hold there is an accountability to that, right?

00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:20.880
But it is much easier to hold somebody accountable to something they speak into, um, and also to incentivize something that they speak into.

00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:22.000
Okay, cool.

00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:24.880
Like the incentive, if we get this, we're going to lunch.

00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:25.920
Like, cool.

00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.519
Um, and and so I I don't know that I'll actually do that.

00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:32.240
But I was gonna say, you be taking people to lunch.

00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:33.519
I we do, we do a lot of lunch.

00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:35.519
Angel Street, y'all watching, y'all heard it.

00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:36.480
Yeah, chill out, chill out.

00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:38.000
Sound like she might owe you a lunch.

00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:40.160
Chill out, chill out, chill out, because chill out.

00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:43.440
Um, so but but you know, I think that's important.

00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:45.839
And I think it's important for people to speak into stuff.

00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:52.559
The other thing that we do though is that they set personal profession professional goals for themselves within their role.

00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.160
And so it's like, within my role, this is what I want to do.

00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.000
And then they are incentivized with a bonus to do that.

00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:07.519
So if you if you meet the goal you set, you will get a monetary bonus at the end of the year, provided we raise enough money to do it.

00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:09.759
Um, and so say what?

00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:11.759
So, like, but it motivates.

00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:12.640
I I don't do it.

00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:13.759
No, no, no, no, no.

00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.359
I get to set my own goal.

00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:16.720
You can set your own goal.

00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:23.759
And if I if I meet my goal, they know not to do that in higher ed.

00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:27.680
They know we will blow them goals.

00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:29.200
They wouldn't have enough money.

00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:33.599
Oh, okay, because the way don't let me set up.

00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:37.759
I mean, we our performance management system, we do set our own goals.

00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:38.160
Yeah.

00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:43.519
But there is no guarantee, you know, that you will be compensated.

00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:47.200
Well, no, there's not really it's it's if we raise the money.

00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:53.200
Now, that's that's like if we if we have a good year, then that will happen, right?

00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:58.240
So if y'all have a good year and I don't reach my goals, you don't get the money.

00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:05.200
Y'all going around telling everybody, man, Angel Street had a great year.

00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:07.839
Fantastic year.

00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.240
And you just sitting there like, man, I was too I was too short.

00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:18.480
Sorry.

00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:23.440
Uh no, but but I found that that's been really effective.

00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:29.279
Um, and and you know, I think the I think and I'll I'll I I think this will be my my final thought on this.

00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:36.319
I think my the other thing that I have found is that transactional leadership is also a it's a good place.

00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:44.880
Um it's a good let me say that the transactional system is effective for new employees.

00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:46.240
Oh yeah.

00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:46.720
Right.

00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:52.640
So people or new people that are new to the to the industry, new to the space.

00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:53.519
Yeah.

00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:59.359
Because it gives them a runway to success quickly.

00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:14.319
Um and and so when you have people who are kind of fresh in their role giving them that to say, okay, you know, this this this week, let's try to hit uh, you know, X, Y, you know, this, the this, right?

00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:18.240
Let's try to hit three, three, uh, uh, you know, three new partners.

00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:20.880
Let's let's try to meet, you know, 10 new students.

00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:22.559
Let's um, you know, whatever.

00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:30.160
And they and it's like, okay, but after they have done it, you can't, you can't keep dictating to people what they need to do.

00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:39.759
And I think you're pointing to another one of Transactional's leadership's kind of qualities that can easily become a weakness.

00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:41.359
And it's the micromanagement.

00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:42.799
Right?

00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.359
It's uh, it's the all right, did you hit your five goals?

00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:46.319
Did you hit your five?

00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:47.519
Have you hit your five yet?

00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:49.279
Well, what are your plans to hit your five?

00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:50.480
I need you to hit the five.

00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.880
And it's like, back above me.

00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:53.440
Yeah.

00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:54.720
Back above me.

00:33:54.960 --> 00:34:06.000
Because you you are still, you don't realize what you um, what you diminish, you take away what are those three uh motivators again?

00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.360
Autonomy, mastery, and purpose.

00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:10.239
Yes.

00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:16.880
You when you put your transactional leadership in that way can become heavy-handed.

00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:17.440
Correct.

00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:26.079
You know, because it becomes, hey, I want you to succeed in the way that I have prescribed success.

00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:44.000
Um and I think as an employee, especially in like your first year on the job, you need to, you need to be mindful of um, sorry, you need to be mindful of, you know, this is the job.

00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:55.360
Like, when you're in that transactional culture and you know, like if you're a car salesman, right, you don't get points for, you know, the customers thinking you're funny.

00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:57.599
You get points when you sell cars.

00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:58.960
For selling cars, right, right, right.

00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.199
You know, that that's the business we're in.

00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:03.840
We are in the business of selling cars.

00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:04.320
That's right.

00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:14.880
So I can't give you a, I can't, I can give you some points if you're relational, but I can't give you full credit if relational does not turn into selling cars.

00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:15.599
Correct.

00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:23.519
And it is easy to be on a job and you're the person that everybody loves but nobody buys from.

00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:26.079
It's easy to become that person.

00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:42.159
So a transactional leader, this is where I think they have you have to learn another skill set because you can't just set out the rewards and expectations and consequences and say, all right, my leadership is done here.

00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:42.480
Right.

00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:42.880
Right?

00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:54.239
You have to say, you have to be able to help them pivot and say, okay, obviously these rewards and consequences are not working, you know, and there's something here that still needs to be developed.

00:35:54.480 --> 00:36:07.679
A lot of times in those, in those instances where you're in kind of that transactional world, it's kind of like a, hey, buddy, we're not, you know, we don't, we don't invest a lot of time into people.

00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:08.159
Yeah.

00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.039
You know, we invest a lot of trust.

00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.679
I trust that you're gonna be able to meet these metrics.

00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:14.079
Right.

00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:23.519
But I'm not gonna, I can't give you a lot of time to do it because the time that you're taking is taken away from somebody else who could have who who maybe could have did this faster.

00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:28.639
And so you have to, as a leader, you have to balance that.

00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:40.800
And I think I think also as a leader, you have to be able to balance where whatever your leadership style is, you have to be able to balance the needs of the organization with the needs of your team.

00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:41.440
100%.

00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:42.400
Oh gosh.

00:36:42.559 --> 00:36:51.119
And and I think that, you know, whoever where wherever you are, I feel like everybody has one that they lean to more.

00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:58.719
I feel like there, you are naturally more an organization builder or a team builder.

00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:05.280
And you need to know who you are so that you can catch yourself when you go too too far on one side.

00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:05.840
That's right.

00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:06.079
Right?

00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:07.599
I'm naturally gonna be a team builder.

00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:08.079
Correct.

00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:12.880
You know, I'm gonna be such a team builder that I'm telling my teammates, listen, I don't know what this organization does.

00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:13.599
That's it.

00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:15.199
Let me tell you what we're gonna do.

00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:16.159
Yes, okay.

00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:18.719
You know, I'm the one you might need to be a little scared of.

00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:19.519
You know what I'm saying?

00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:21.519
They've all gone rogue.

00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:26.800
Jaquita has led her entire team rogue, but we're gonna we're gonna be right.

00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:27.280
Uh-huh.

00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:29.280
Okay, we're gonna get it done.

00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:31.280
Bump what's going on in the company.

00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:32.639
My team gonna be good.

00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:34.400
I created a little nest.

00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.280
Oh, all right, and we're good.

00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.400
You know, my name actually means fortress.

00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:41.519
I be trying to tell people.

00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:42.960
And I told my team that.

00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:45.119
I was like, hey, I need y'all to know who I am.

00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:46.960
You need to know who's leading you.

00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.039
I I'm gonna keep us all safe.

00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:50.400
Yeah, that's real.

00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:52.320
All right, we're gonna make it through the transition.

00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.960
I don't know what everybody else is doing, but we're gonna be all right.

00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:56.000
You gotta know.

00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:57.199
I I love that you said that.

00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.280
You gotta know which one you lean towards.

00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:10.400
Um because that the the that that the transactional style lends itself more to an organizational leading, right?

00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:10.639
Right.

00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:11.039
Yes.

00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:35.519
And um, but it is you can't I think this is also it is also when you when we're kind of as we're unpacking this, it helps to understand, um, it helps to remind, at least me, uh, that leadership can't is not a a a um leadership the best type of leadership is shared.

00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:42.800
Um and so the transactional style doesn't really open itself up to that very well.

00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:49.599
Um in its natural kind of like is it that in its natural style, it doesn't really open itself up to shared leadership.

00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:52.400
It's kind of like this is the way it is, do it like this.

00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:59.440
Um and I think that that balance is is really important.

00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:08.719
Yes, as an organization, as a company, we have these things we have to do in order to remain uh you know, in a position to employ you, right?

00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:25.440
Um and at the same time, uh those of us who lean more towards organizational like uh thinking are like that this organization is nothing without the people who help to make it happen.

00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.960
So you have to care, you have to care about both.

00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:29.840
It's not an option.

00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:39.840
And so uh, you know, that that idea of how does a transactional uh system uh how do you how do you honor both there?

00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:40.239
Right.

00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:41.840
And I think you absolutely can.

00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.639
Uh and and you, you know, and I think we've been we've been kind of talking about ways to do ways to do that.

00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:58.800
So I I think the um you know that this is this is a this this style again is so familiar to us.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:06.480
It's so familiar that we can go to it too quickly.

00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:14.559
If you're not, if if it's like, okay, I don't know what else to do, so I'm just I'm gonna I'm gonna you know tell the team that we're gonna do this if you do this.

00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.880
Like like well, just hold on.

00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:19.119
I mean it's like it's like the adult pizza party.

00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:25.519
Yeah, you know, like when you were at school and they'd be like, hey, if you if if y'all pass the test, you can have a pizza party.

00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:29.920
Like, hey man, listen, let's go everybody get it together so we can get this pizza party.

00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:36.320
Yeah, I mean, if that's what it is, and and sometimes that works, but sometimes it's not gonna work.

00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:38.320
Um, and so what do you do?

00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:39.679
Do you keep doubling down?

00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:45.280
No, I I think you gotta you gotta sit back, think, and and again you have to pivot into a different direction.

00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:56.559
I strongly suggest if you are in a uh structure that is more transactional, find ways to elevate some of these other relational styles.

00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:59.840
Um pair it together.

00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:06.880
You you have you have to pair it together and figure out a way to really involve your people.

00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:08.719
Hmm, you know.

00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:18.719
Yeah, I also think you if you are a transactional leader, I I'm gonna go ahead and make an assumption that you are also achievement-oriented.

00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:19.119
Sure.

00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:22.639
Because in your mind, you like, yo, this will work for me.

00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:30.480
You know, like if somebody put a goal in front of me and then put and paired that with a reward, like I'm going for it.

00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.400
You know, you're ambitious.

00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:40.079
You are, you know, you you buy into the idea that success renders reward.

00:41:40.480 --> 00:42:01.039
Um, and I think that it would be really important that you as a leader, and I think this for all leaders, but I think you, if you are an ambitious person, I think it's really important that you have mentors around you who can place boundaries around your ambition.

00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:01.679
That's good.

00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:14.320
And place and and help you to learn, you know, the necessary character and ethics that go along with chasing ambition.

00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:14.800
Yeah.

00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:20.320
Um, because you need you need somebody that that can check you.

00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:20.719
Yeah.

00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:31.199
And I think the more you have someone doing that in your life, the more you'll be able to see your team members as people and not just producers.

00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:34.480
Um, you need people in your life.

00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:39.199
I think it's kind of like being a celebrity, you know, like you need people in your life who don't treat you like a celebrity.

00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:39.599
That's right.

00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:41.280
Who you know, unimpressed.

00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:41.679
Right.

00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:43.280
Who are unimpressed.

00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:43.840
That's right.

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.480
When you walk in a room, they like, hey girl, sit down.

00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:46.800
Yeah.

00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:47.280
All right.

00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:49.519
I don't care nothing about what you was doing on stage.

00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:49.920
Yeah.

00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:50.480
All right.

00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:52.079
I want to talk to you about your life.

00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:52.400
Yeah.

00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.320
You know, I want to talk to you about your heart.

00:42:54.480 --> 00:43:03.920
I want to talk to you about, you know, and because you probably got into a leadership slash management role because you were really good at something.

00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:06.559
You were really good at producing something.

00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:08.480
You're making a good point, Guida.

00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:09.440
You're making a good point.

00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:16.480
You were really good at producing something in that company or in companies before, and and you became that person.

00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:24.159
And so now your way of motivating people is hey, if you want to become that person, you gotta produce.

00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:25.840
But it is easy.

00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:32.000
If you are a high producer, it is easy to ignore the other parts of yourself.

00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:42.719
Um, and you need you need people around you that can catch your blind spots, and you can't get so high up that you can't hear from down below.

00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.719
You you make such a good point.

00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:53.280
I love that you brought up the fact that most people who get put in who get promoted are promoted because they do the thing that they were doing really well.

00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.760
And they're and what we don't this is good.

00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.440
Take your time.

00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:13.199
What we do is we we make we make the mistake of not preparing people from going to producing to leading.

00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:17.440
You don't have it's not the same skill set.

00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:33.840
And so just because you're able to do something really, really well, you are been promoted, and most promotion it it uh most of the time when you're promoted, you are promoted to a space where you're doing less, you're doing less.

00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:40.480
Um you are leading other people in doing, you're not you're not the one that's doing it.

00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:49.920
And so when you are used to being the one that's uh killing it, you would lean more.

00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:58.079
It would make sense to lean more towards this transactional leadership style when you are kind of put in a position to then manage a team to do that thing, right?

00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:01.360
Um but it's it is so important.

00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:17.199
What ex I I hope I hope y'all heard what Quita said, it's so important to put energy into learning these other styles because the truth is you are gonna have a deficiency in the other more relational styles of leadership because it's just not it's not the muscle you've used.

00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:29.840
And you need to practice that muscle uh because uh the the the quickest way to kill a team is to do what your team should be doing.

00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:33.360
Like the quickest way to do that is to do their job.

00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:40.239
Oh yes, because that's exactly what I experienced in that organization.

00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:56.719
Yeah, not only that organization I was talking about earlier, not only was I not motivated to do the things, my boss, who I love dearly, she put me in her car and said, Hey, we rolling out because you're gonna get these numbers.

00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:03.199
And she took me community to community, and we got we got the numbers.

00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:05.760
Then all of that was the only time I won an award.

00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:11.440
One of them weekly meeting awards, was because she she took me out and did it.

00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:17.360
But I felt no levels of success or growth.

00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:24.159
I didn't do it, and I also didn't really, I wasn't really motivated to do it the way she was doing it either.

00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:24.559
Yeah.

00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:32.320
You know, I was just, I was, I was, I became, I became numb to the whole process.

00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:34.079
I was just like, man, whatever.

00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.840
You know, I'm I'm just I'm just here so I don't get fined.

00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:38.400
Yeah.

00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:38.800
Yeah.

00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:47.119
You know, and so you don't want, you don't want, because it is easy to ignore what's happening in other people.

00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:54.400
Now, I'm not, you know, I do think her leadership style was transactional at that time, but she also was like, girl, I got you.

00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:55.760
I'm gonna protect you, you know.

00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:01.679
Like she saw the good in me, but it wasn't, we both knew I wasn't made for that role.

00:47:01.840 --> 00:47:02.480
Yeah, yeah.

00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:04.559
And that I wasn't gonna be able to stay there.

00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:05.519
Like we both knew.

00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:07.760
I'm not, don't put me in no hustle role.

00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:08.159
Yeah.

00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:09.760
I ain't your girl.

00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:13.599
Don't don't put me out in the stream and be like, hey, quit it, go get it.

00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:14.400
You know what I'm saying?

00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:15.039
Go do it.

00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:16.239
I'm be like, wait a minute.

00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:16.639
Yeah.

00:47:16.800 --> 00:47:21.440
Okay, because I'm gonna end up the people you trying to get me to to bring into the organization.

00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.159
I'm gonna be like, hey, baby, you listen, I see something on you.

00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:25.440
You look heavy today.

00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:25.840
Let's talk.

00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:27.920
All right, now you ain't gotta join this organization.

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:29.440
I don't care nothing about that.

00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:31.920
I don't care nothing about that.

00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:41.280
And I leave feeling fulfilled because I changed the life and and and the numbers are still low.

00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:44.239
Don't put me.

00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:45.840
Let me tell you something.

00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.480
A shout out to all the transactional leaders.

00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:50.400
You might not want me on your squad.

00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:51.840
Uh okay.

00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:54.079
I I am not a numbers person.

00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.800
Quality over here, over quantity, okay.

00:47:57.199 --> 00:47:58.079
That's hilarious.

00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:01.119
That's exactly if you want higher survey results, okay.

00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:02.480
I can get you that.

00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:05.840
Okay, I can I can improve your satisfaction.

00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:06.800
That's hilarious.

00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.480
Okay, but don't uh don't you gotta know who you are.

00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:11.599
You gotta know who you are.

00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:19.039
You know, and I think that that's important, not just from a leadership standpoint, but a lot of you are thinking about your next career moves.

00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:23.840
You're thinking about, you know, like where where could, you know, especially as middle adult.

00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:25.760
I did not think I was gonna be here.

00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:31.119
I didn't think I was gonna be in a place where I was like, hmm, what what comes after this?

00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:32.559
Like what's next for me?

00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.519
You know, I'm in a I'm in an unfamiliar place.

00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:39.920
But I will tell you, no lie, Ruth Abigail.

00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:43.920
Talking through these leadership styles has helped me tremendously.

00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:54.000
It's helped me tremendously because it has reminded me of who I am, but it has also shown me what God is doing in my life now.

00:48:54.400 --> 00:49:00.239
He's like, hey, yeah, you're great at this transformational thing, but you're gonna need a little bit more than that.

00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:00.880
Yeah.

00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:14.960
You know, say I don't know about this transactional one, but you're gonna need a little bit, you're gonna need, you're gonna need to, to, to, to be able to delve into some other things for for your next, you know, stage in life.

00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:16.880
And that's just for everything.

00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.159
And so I think another thing we do as leaders is that we compartmentalize our lives.

00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:26.480
You know, and we say, hey, this is you know, this is me in my job.

00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:31.920
You know, I'm transformational or I'm you know, transactive, transaction.

00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:33.679
Yep, take your time.

00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:34.639
Transactional.

00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:35.519
Mm-hmm.

00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:36.159
Mm-hmm.

00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:36.880
There it is.

00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:38.079
We be streaking.

00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:39.039
That's all right.

00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:42.320
You can tell I took I took some uh some time off from school.

00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:44.719
You know, I it's like I forgot how to talk.

00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:46.719
I forgot how to say big words.

00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:48.639
Yeah, take your time.

00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:51.679
Okay, take your time, Jaquita, all right?

00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:52.960
Don't don't rush it.

00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:59.599
Take your time, you know, but but you are you are not a compartmentalized individual.

00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.159
Yeah, talking to you, leader, right?

00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:04.239
You're not a compartmentalized individual.

00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:13.360
Every area of your life is impacting, building, strengthening, supporting all the other areas of your life.

00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:13.840
Correct.

00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:18.639
If you are a husband and a wife, that's impacting the way that you lead at work, right?

00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:33.199
If you're a mother or a father, that's impacting the way that you're building relationships or that you are teaching people, you know, especially mother-father, you know, like you go in to work and you be like, I know exactly what we're doing here, right?

00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:39.920
Because you're looking, the lenses that we look through in our lives will impact the way that we lead.

00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:41.039
100%.

00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:43.679
It it's just gonna happen.

00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:57.440
And so I think that it's it's really important that while you are thinking through how do I show up for the people that I lead, don't leave any part of you at the door.

00:50:58.159 --> 00:50:59.119
Bring it all.

00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:00.320
Yeah, that's good.

00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:07.039
Bring it all because that is gonna help you to be able to shift out of using only just one style.

00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:07.599
Yep.

00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:12.480
Because your life is molding and shaping you to be a better leader.

00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:29.440
But when we get into our leadership spaces and we're like, all right, turn off, you know, my mama hat, turn off my my sister hat, my auntie hat, turn off this, and I'm just in this workspace now, and I'm here, and we treat our roles as transactions.

00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:36.159
Yeah, that's like, you know, I'm here to do a job, and then when I leave, I'm gonna leave this job at the door.

00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:40.000
Every part of you will follow you everywhere you go.

00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:44.639
And you have to allow all of you to show up in these spaces.

00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:56.159
And that's honestly how we start experiencing burnout when we when we try to like dictate what parts of us get what energy or what just just show up.

00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:02.800
Just show up, show up, just show up, show up as your whole self, and that's that's really what healthy leadership is.

00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:09.760
Like you are a leader, like you, that's that's who you are everywhere.

00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:18.960
Like it's how you think, um, it's how you show up, it's the attitude you have, and all of that matters everywhere.

00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:26.239
So so if you truly are living into that reality, then you're not compartmentalizing.

00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:37.599
It it is it is a very you know, every place you show up, there is something distinct about you that says he's a leader, she's a leader.

00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:40.159
Yeah, and that's what you want to do, that's how you want to be.

00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:44.880
Um well, there you go, guys.

00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:46.960
Transactional leadership.

00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:49.440
Transactional leadership.

00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:57.920
Um, we have one more uh coming up after this, and we are that's gonna be really interesting, I think.

00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:59.519
Uh, this this last one.

00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:03.679
Um, and then we are we we will have completed this series.

00:53:03.760 --> 00:53:05.360
We thank you for rocking with us.

00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:14.079
And if this series has been uh of value to you, or you think it could be of value to anybody else, we want you to do what, Jaquita?

00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:18.559
We want you to like, share, and subscribe, okay?

00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:20.960
Become a part of the community, you know.

00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:22.000
Unlearn with us.

00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:24.400
We're really this is a process of unlearning together.

00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:30.000
Ru Gabigail and I are unlearning in real time with you guys.

00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.079
And so we want you to be a part of that.

00:53:32.239 --> 00:53:33.519
We want you to rock with us.

00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:34.480
Come on, man.

00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.440
Um, because this is a journey that we're doing together.

00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:37.760
Absolutely.

00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:42.400
We are right there with you.

00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:44.159
Share and subscribe.

00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:48.880
I know some of y'all, I know some of y'all be listening and not subscribing now.

00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:49.679
Y'all do that.

00:53:50.079 --> 00:53:50.480
All right.

00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:53.199
I know some of y'all be be looking at the clips here.

00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:54.960
If you like the clip, like the clip.

00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:55.360
Yeah.

00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:55.920
All right.

00:53:56.000 --> 00:53:58.480
Go ahead and hit that little, hit that little thumbs up.

00:53:58.639 --> 00:53:58.719
Okay.

00:53:59.440 --> 00:53:59.760
Do that.

00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:01.920
I need that extrinsic motivation.

00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:02.239
Okay.

00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:02.880
There you go.

00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:03.280
There you go.

00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:04.159
Hit the like button.

00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:04.800
There you go.

00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:05.679
Let's let's do it.

00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:06.320
Let's do it.

00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:07.679
Um, all right, y'all.

00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:10.559
We are done and we will see y'all next week.

00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:15.039
But until then, we're gonna keep unlearning together so that we can experience more freedom.

00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:22.719
Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast.

00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:27.039
We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode.

00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:33.679
Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram, and to let us know what you think.

00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:40.159
We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom.

00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:41.360
See you then.