Oct. 20, 2025

What’s Your Leadership Style: Unlearning Transformational Leadership

What’s Your Leadership Style: Unlearning Transformational Leadership

Send us a text We unpack transformational leadership through real stories, moving from identity and belief to sustainable action. We name the strengths, blind spots, and boundaries that keep charisma ethical and growth-centered. • defining transformational leadership and its core pillars • coaching belief before behavior using the be do have model • individualized consideration and long-term loyalty • where this style fails in crisis and how to pivot • boundaries to avoid favorites and blurr...

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We unpack transformational leadership through real stories, moving from identity and belief to sustainable action. We name the strengths, blind spots, and boundaries that keep charisma ethical and growth-centered.

• defining transformational leadership and its core pillars
• coaching belief before behavior using the be do have model
• individualized consideration and long-term loyalty
• where this style fails in crisis and how to pivot
• boundaries to avoid favorites and blurred roles
• mission focus over ego and preference
• ethical voice use, speaking last, and avoiding manipulation
• sharing influence with other leaders and building community
• releasing people well and holding allegiance loosely
• practical tips to balance inspiration with structure

Like, share, subscribe, and become part of this community


00:00 - Warm Welcome And Housekeeping

02:10 - Setting The Theme: Transformational Leadership

03:45 - Defining The Core Pillars

05:20 - Jaquita’s Journey Into Becoming-Focused Leadership

11:10 - Be-Do-Have: Belief Before Execution

15:20 - Individualized Coaching And Lasting Loyalty

21:40 - Strengths, Gaps, And When Not To Use It

27:20 - Boundaries, Favorites, And Fairness

34:00 - Mission Over Ego And Team Ecosystems

40:30 - Power, Voice, And Ethical Influence

46:00 - Letting People Go And Being Shaped Back

52:00 - Wrap-Up, Series Continuation, And Community

WEBVTT

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Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to the Unlert podcast.

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I'm your host with Abigail, aka R A.

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What's up, friends?

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It's your girl, Jaquita.

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And this is the podcast that is helping you gain the courage to change your mind so that we and we can experience more freedom.

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I don't know what happened there.

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It's fine.

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It's all right.

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It's all right.

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It's another middle adult moment, friends.

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It's another middle adult moment.

00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:34.719
Ruth Amiga has literally done that intro five million times.

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You know, like sometimes you just, it's like um autopilot, and you just you overthink it's no auto did not pilot.

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It did not.

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Okay.

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I don't know what you're doing.

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No, this is why, because you know, and and you guys, just so you know in the background, um, you might hear a little screaming.

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I have four children in my house.

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Do I normally have four children at my house?

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I do not.

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Um, but our nephews are in town and uh they are staying with us for a week.

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And she's out here, all right.

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We have four children in the house.

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So I apologize for any background noise you might hear.

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We're gonna try to fix that.

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But if we don't, hey, listen there you go.

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That's also why my brother's not how kids are, all right.

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Listen, it's better that they're having a good time, all right, then you try to shush them, it's just gonna make it worse.

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Correct.

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I it's that's why I was like, it's not even a I shouldn't even because then they're gonna find reasons to be in here.

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And no, let them be free.

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But if they're not free, they they get curious.

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That's exactly right.

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And when they get curious, they get dangerous.

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That's right.

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They do.

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Okay, they do.

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Let them children have a good time.

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And I love it, and I love them, and it's been a wild, fun week, and so my brain's a little mushy.

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So I apologize if I don't have my thoughts all the way together.

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But that's okay because today is actually Queda's favorite leadership style.

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I'm very excited.

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Okay, like you definitely mentioned it.

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Golly wits, friends.

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Like, let's talk about transformational leadership, okay?

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It's one of my favorite things ever.

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Um, you know, and I think first, before we even get into it, you thought we forgot, didn't you?

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You thought we were gonna remember.

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Like, share, subscribe, huh?

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What are you waiting on?

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Get in there, okay?

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Become part of this family, become part of this community, we become part of what we do out here in these streets.

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Yes, okay.

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We uh love interacting and engaging with you guys.

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Thank y'all for rocking with us, all right?

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But let's make it official.

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Okay, let's stop hanging out in the corner, okay?

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And get on in here and be a be official, unite with us, okay, as we move together.

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Follow me as I follow Christ.

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Okay, we love having y'all part of our community.

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So, um Quita, we are talking about transferly transformational leadership today.

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And um, if you've been paying attention to uh prior episodes, you have you actually heard Queda talk about this um in segments along the way because she just can't help herself.

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She can't help herself.

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Um because this is this is her favorite leadership style, it's the one she connects to the most.

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And so uh what I'm gonna do because I'm gonna just tell you right now, she you're gonna hear from her more than you're gonna hear from me on this.

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I'm just gonna be honest with you.

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That's not true.

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So, yes, it is, but um so and for that, I'm gonna go ahead and like open it up.

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And I'm gonna like Okay, throw you a softball, you know what I'm saying?

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All right, so you're actually really good at that.

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So we're gonna do that.

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Uh so let me get my little bit of a little bit of a little bit more.

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We're gonna tell the people what it is.

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Okay.

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So transformational leadership, it is here's what it does it inspires through shared vision and fosters growth.

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All right.

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The impact this has is it builds loyalty and encourages development.

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And uh the way you can kind of use it is it's effective in change or in goal-driven context.

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Okay.

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So um some other key aspects of transformational leadership um are inspirational motivation.

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Articulates a compelling vision that inspires my lord.

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Come on, come on, come on, yeah, yeah.

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Intellectual stimulation.

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Oh, that's right up.

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Oh, we're gonna stimulate.

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Okay, okay.

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We're gonna get the people thinking and the things moving.

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You're gonna spark the mind there, Quita.

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Is that what you uh just a little bit?

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Just do a little spark.

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Just a little bit.

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Uh so they challenge followers to think critically, question assumptions, innovate, um, individualized consideration, right?

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Leaders are very concerned about the individual person.

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Um, and they like to provide support, coaching, mentorship.

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Um, and then idealized influence, or uh, as we like to more commonly call it, charisma.

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And who's more charismatic than Jaquita Ross?

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Um leaders act as role models, inspiring trust and respect um amongst their folks.

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Now, seriously, in all seriousness, uh I have seen Jakuita around the people that she leads, like I've seen a few times, and this describes her very, very perfectly.

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She is a textbook transformational leader.

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And it's really, it's really cool like to see it because what and I've told you this before, one of the things I really admire about your leadership is um the fact that the people that you have had that leadership relationship with, it they stick to you.

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You know what I'm saying?

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Like they really don't like you you don't you don't directly in a formal way lead them anymore, but they are still with you, right?

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They are they still kind of um they they follow you in a sense, right?

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Like they they are still there, and I think you've done a really, really good job over multiple years, several years of of doing that kind of work with younger leaders.

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And so uh I how now I kind of gave like the technical definition, but like you give it from a more practical, like day-to-day, you know what I'm saying?

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This is your softball.

00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:22.639
Give it like you know, what there you catch a ball?

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Okay, all right, all right.

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Sorry, y'all.

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Inside joke.

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I walked right into that.

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Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Ruth Abigail has, you know, this one picture where she's just like, Okay, all right.

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I think she was making an example.

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She didn't mean so we call it her catch a ball pose.

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Um, anywho, first of all, Ruth Abigail, yeah, I feel like, you know, like you set me up to give like a speech or something.

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Like I want to thank you for the wonderful introduction.

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You know, man, you know how people say, Man, I didn't even really believe that was me as she was up there giving those words.

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Um, you know, now I'd like to address the unlearned community.

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Um, but you know, I I think I did, I was doing transformational leadership before I even knew what it was called.

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Um, it's just it's natural, it's just very natural for me.

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Um, and I think that one of the things that I I always emphasize, um, I heard this quote one time and it just stuck with me, and it just be kind of came, it became kind of the foundation of everything I did.

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And it's that we are human beings, not human doings.

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Right.

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And so I don't really like focusing on doing anyway, you know, just in naturally who I am.

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It's actually very true.

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I am not, here's the thing, I can execute, and when I do execute, I do it with excellence, right?

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But I much prefer to sit, ponder, think, inspire, you know, move people on the, you know, move their belief systems versus moving their their actions or their productivity.

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You know, I I think I operate from the belief that if I can change how you believe about yourself, how you believe about the Lord, how you believe about your own ability, it's not your ability itself I'm trying to lead.

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It's your belief in your ability.

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And so I kind of take it as it's it's an ad for me on the side of being the leader, it's an adventure.

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What can I, what can I say?

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What can I use?

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What can I uh what what examples can I give?

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How can my own life be an example that can help you to think differently about a situation so that you will become the person that is able to be excellent at the thing, and not necessarily training you up to do something well, but training you to be the type of person that does something well.

00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:05.120
Let's pause right now because you said a lot.

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And I think um I think it's worth kind of uh going a little deeper into, okay?

00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:16.879
So you said um you want to get people, it's about belief, right?

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It's about belief in your ability, not just your ability, right?

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Yeah, it's about the idea of becoming, right?

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Not necessarily doing, um and then you become the person who can do the thing, right?

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We've talked about this principle that Myra Golden has kind of coined, be do have, right?

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You become somebody who can do a thing, who can get a thing.

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And so um I I love this because and we were talking about a little bit about this earlier.

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I believe I am more geared towards helping people to do things.

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Um and I I I that is really more of where I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna coach you in you wanna get a thing done, this is how you need to do it.

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Right?

00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:01.279
Yeah.

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Um you're gonna coach somebody in you wanna get a thing done, this is who you have to be.

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I feel like I am coaching people to one discover who they are, and then to love who they are.

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Yeah.

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And that is every setting that I'm in.

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And you know, when I think back on it, because I think when you look at your own journey as a leader, I think you can find your own pivot point.

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And your your pivot point usually starts at a pain point.

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And for me, I was constantly being told that I wasn't, I either wasn't doing enough or that what I was doing, I wasn't doing it right.

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Like I wasn't doing it with the right intentions or in the right way or are are producing the right results.

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And when I would try to put on these actions of, okay, well, let me just go do stuff.

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Okay, because people are telling me I'm not doing enough.

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So I'm just gonna get out there and start doing, right?

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Or are people are telling me I don't do things in a certain way.

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So let me just try to do, I just try to do more stuff so that people would perceive, like, oh yeah, yeah, you finally got it, you know.

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But I was I felt aimless.

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I felt um, I felt like I was leaving me behind in the process of becoming great.

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That I was leaving who I was supposed to be and who was supposed to show up, that all that was showing up was kind of like this this laundry list of actions or our our behaviors are just a product.

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I felt like I was becoming a product and not a person.

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And so when I got in places of influence, um, and I um I started teaching, I taught freshman seminar classes, taught college students how to be college students for years.

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Um, I started doing motivational speaking, I started doing nonprofit work, I started doing campus life.

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Everything that I was doing, I kept emphasizing to people.

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I didn't want them to make the mistake that I had made, where I was just doing for the sake of doing.

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And so I started teaching them, I started breaking down the concepts of how do you become a person that you can admire and that you can be proud of, and that can then out of that belief produce.

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That's and because that that was the change, that's what made the difference in my life, was that when I became a person that recognized myself, then believed in myself, then loved myself, I began to produce real impact.

00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:48.879
And I and I think that's actually, I mean, I I think that's really the story of any leader who is any any good leader, healthy leader, let me say it that way.

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Any healthy leader is you you have you have gone through a journey of becoming before you're able to lead well.

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You you have to, right?

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And I and I I love that you are able to pinpoint that in your own journey of I didn't love myself, I was not, I didn't, I didn't see the value in just who I was.

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Like forget what I'm able to do, but just who I was.

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And the what most people do is what you try to do is to uh you know to discover your value based on what you're able to accomplish.

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And and that's just not that's not how you do it, but that is how most of us do it.

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Um what is it that what are some of the things that you as as a leader who walks with people through that?

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Um can you what are some of the key ways that you do that help people to do that?

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Like just a couple of key things that you're like it's important as a transformational leader to do uh XYZ when you are trying to help uh uh a a newer leader to discover who they are.

00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:07.679
Yeah.

00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:10.720
It's funny because this really did become an interview of me.

00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:14.720
And like we literally said, oh yeah, no, we're not gonna do that.

00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:19.519
Then it's like, yeah, I got some really deep and pointed questions for you, Jaquita.

00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:21.120
Um, but that that's all good.

00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:21.679
That's all good.

00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:22.320
Let's go.

00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:23.919
I I enjoy it.

00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:32.240
You know, I think one of the hallmarks of a transformational leader is kind of like this individualized approach.

00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:37.679
You know, you spoke of how I've been able to maintain relationships.

00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:43.759
Um, and I would say there, they're still like it's it's it's it's no different than when they were working for me.

00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:44.080
Yeah.

00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:44.399
Right?

00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:49.519
Like I still get called basically for like one-on-ones, like, hey, yeah, queen, I'm putting a meeting on your calendar.

00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:49.840
Yeah.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.799
Like they don't work for me anymore, but they're like, I, whatever it was that you was doing, I need that.

00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:55.279
Right.

00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:17.519
And so you you recognize that one of the one of the I think tenets of transformational leadership is that you're able to sit down person by person and create almost an individualized really assessment approach, and then like kind of like an inspirational boom.

00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:18.000
Okay.

00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:18.639
Right.

00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:30.720
And so, like when you're sitting with that person, and it's almost like my mind is picking up on clues and hints and thoughts and ideas and the things that they're saying.

00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:36.639
I'm like marking that in my mind, like, okay, that's a thing, that's a thing that I can add to.

00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.200
That's a place where they're not believing in themselves.

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That's a place where there's fear, that's a place where there's doubt.

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That's a place where they don't even know how gifted they are right there.

00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.159
That could be a potential snag to who they're becoming.

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And all my mind is thinking is I gotta get them to their next level.

00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:55.279
Yeah.

00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:55.759
Right.

00:15:55.840 --> 00:16:04.240
And so anybody who sits in front of me, if you would like to sign up for Jaquita's coaching services, give me a talk, right?

00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.480
Because I feel like I'm marketing myself right here.

00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:10.080
I just said, like, but but you're really good at what you do for real.

00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:15.600
I mean, I I I I love what I do because it again, it's it's been who I am.

00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:24.480
But it's the transformational leadership style, I think, is really marked by being able to have a person sit in front of you.

00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:32.639
And the areas where they feel depleted, you you're just constantly pouring.

00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.480
You're like, I'm gonna water that.

00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.919
You know, where it says some plants, some water, but God gets to increase.

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:38.799
I'm a waterer.

00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:45.200
Yeah, I'm gonna water whatever, whatever I can find inside of you that's good, I'm gonna water it.

00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:45.440
Yeah.

00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:52.960
And everything that comes up that would come against what I know God is trying to do in your life, I'm gonna slowly tug at it.

00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:54.000
I'm not a gutter.

00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:55.039
I know gutters.

00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.320
I'm not a gutter.

00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:57.840
That's not me.

00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.399
Okay.

00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:09.920
I'm not a gutter, but I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna keep pointing you in the direction of here's how great you can be, here's how amazing you are, here's here are the good things.

00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:15.279
And, you know, we have what every human being has what's called a negativity bias.

00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.200
We are biased to believe what's negative about ourselves.

00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.839
If you are a transformational leader, it is really easy for you to point out the good in somebody.

00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:24.240
Yeah.

00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:32.640
You know, and I also think that kind of works well for us, and it also can on the flip side work against us, right?

00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.400
Because we're so used to saying, but girl, you the bomb, but don't you know who you are?

00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:38.400
And don't you know you got this, this, and that.

00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:39.680
And let me tell you something.

00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:44.240
If all you do is this, this, and that, boy, you about to, you about to change the game.

00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:53.680
And it's it's much easier for me to see that than to see, you know, you really, you really struggling, you know, with some things, right?

00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:59.759
Like you got some, you have some some not, I can catch character things.

00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:01.599
I don't always catch habits.

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:02.559
Interesting.

00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:06.400
Like I can catch, I can catch if there's something in your character.

00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:20.559
Like if you are a person that tears down other people, or if you are a person that uh that that that gives yourself the advantage over giving someone else the advantage, or you know, like I can catch character stuff, right?

00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:25.119
But if you are a person that's like, hey, I just be late sometimes.

00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:26.000
Yeah.

00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:28.079
Me too.

00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:46.319
Because that because that's not uh, you know, I I really feel like transformational leaders are likely not uh uh uh structured, timely, you know, because it takes a lot of energy to be charismatic.

00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:56.720
You know, it takes a lot of energy to to rally the people and to inspire everybody and to and to create these individualized moments for people.

00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:07.359
And so if I'm in a moment with somebody and I'm like, man, I'm about to get them to their next level, I don't really concern myself with what's happening in the next moment, right?

00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.880
I'm I'm staying in this moment until a thing is done.

00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:14.480
And that kind of travels throughout all of my life, right?

00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:21.200
Like staying in a moment and and not always being able to move quickly.

00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:24.559
I tell myself, I say, Jaquita, you get caught in the transitions.

00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.160
Like when I'm trying to be on time to something, it's the transition.

00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:32.880
In the morning, it's the transition from the bed to you know, brushing my teeth.

00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.599
It's the transition from brushing my teeth to putting on my clothes.

00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:37.359
That's where I lose time.

00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:37.920
Yeah.

00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:42.000
Um so I think you have to be you have to be honest with yourself.

00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:52.559
I think in all of these leadership styles, it's important that when you look at yourself as a leader, that you are honest and say, uh, I'm really great when it comes to this.

00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.720
But I I'm not, um, don't ask me to help you with the practical stuff.

00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.640
Well, I'm not gonna be the best at it.

00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:11.440
Again, and I we we try to say this every time, and they were they were kind of laughing at me before because they they were saying, like, you've said you probably you probably have, you've leaned towards m a lot of these, right?

00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:12.160
Talking about myself.

00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:13.200
You really have though.

00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:14.160
And I know I have.

00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:22.319
And I and I um I actually just asked one of my one of my colleagues, like, which one do you, which ones do you think, and she named three.

00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:33.200
So I I I think but I do think that as you grow in your leadership, you recognize that you have to hit it's you have to be comfortable.

00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:40.720
It may not be your pre your preference, but you've got to be comfortable in all these styles because all of these styles belong somewhere.

00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.680
And to your point about transformational leadership, it does not belong in a crisis.

00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.359
You better not try to transform nobody when when there's an emergency, right?

00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:51.039
That's not that's not that's not what it's time.

00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:57.680
It doesn't matter what yeah, well I'm sorry, it well, it just it just there's there's certain areas it doesn't belong in.

00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:04.720
And so if you find your not worried about your becoming, we got something to do, right?

00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.759
Like we got we gotta we got lives to save, you know what I'm saying?

00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:11.839
Like that's that's that's something we we have to you have to pivot.

00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:20.480
And I think for I think that one of the potential pitfalls for this leadership style is that well, maybe it's me.

00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:20.880
I don't know.

00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:28.240
I think it's one of those styles that is um very idealistic, uh very like highly respected in a sense.

00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:32.559
When I say ideal, I mean like who doesn't want to be known as a transformational leader?

00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:39.440
I mean, that's kind of one of those things it's like you know, I I you know, everybody would want to believe that they have that kind of influence on people at some level.

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.880
Um but I and it's it's a it's a style, it's like the opposite of autocratic, right?

00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.000
Like nobody really wants to be associated with autocratic leadership.

00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:49.920
Um some people do.

00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:54.319
The real autocratic leaders love being autocratic.

00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:56.160
Kind of, but I think I don't know.

00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:01.519
I still think that leadership style has its, it's like it doesn't have good it has negative connotations.

00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:08.000
Yeah, so I'm saying I I don't think I don't think most people most people would be like, yeah, I'm proud to be an autocratic leader.

00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:17.279
I don't I don't think that's happening, but I think a lot of people would probably say more people would lean to like I'm proud of being a transformational leader.

00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.680
And I transformational and servant.

00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:20.799
I can see that.

00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:22.079
For sure, yes.

00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:35.279
So my so so I think that with with those types of leadership styles, we have to be aware of the pitfalls even more so because they can be glorified in a way that makes you not feel like you need to pivot.

00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:36.000
You know what I mean?

00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:48.720
And so yeah, um I think one of the one of the thing one of the things that you were just kind of describing, um the idea of getting lost in the transitions, right?

00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.599
Um, that could be a potential pitfall.

00:22:51.839 --> 00:23:01.279
Um uh uh being able to uh timeliness and in in in in the sense of okay, we have we have deadlines we gotta meet, right?

00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:03.359
Like those types of things, right?

00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:11.599
Like it's like those things have to happen um when you are those things might have to happen when you're leading.

00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:28.640
And so if we if we glorify this particular leadership style in a way that um uh kind of puts to the back burner these very important moments, then we then we've really we we've we've misused it, right?

00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:39.440
And um, and so I think I think it's important, like you said, to be honest about what I'm what I lean towards and what I what I'm what I'm good at, what I'm not, where I need to grow, where I don't.

00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:43.200
Um and and also when I need to take a step back, right?

00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:44.480
Like we've talked about before.

00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.599
It's not my moment.

00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:49.680
Let me let somebody else take it, take the reins, because this ain't really what I do.

00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.960
Um, that's why that's why partnerships are so important.

00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.799
Um I will say yes to that.

00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:10.480
And part of your development is going to, you know, like I don't think you can just say, hey, all right, I'm a transformational leader, I gotta step back, all right, and we need an authoritarian.

00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.599
No, no, no, no.

00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.400
Part of your development is learning how to pivot.

00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.319
Yeah, you have to learn how to pivot.

00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.599
And I think that's with any of your leadership styles.

00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:27.119
And I'm hoping that through the series that people are listening and they have found the one that I that they identify with the most.

00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:42.960
But I'm also hoping that they're realizing that there are situations that they can, you know, think about through their own leadership where they're like, man, if I had moved to a democratic leadership style right there, yeah, I probably would have had a better result.

00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:51.680
Or if I had, you know, just moved for just a moment and and in that emergency situation, not try to say, all right, guys, what do you think?

00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.680
But instead taking more of an authoritarian approach, you know.

00:24:55.920 --> 00:25:02.480
And I think, but I do think you have to build your team up to handle your shifts as a leader.

00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:17.200
You know, it's like when when you start flipping on people, yeah, you know what I'm saying, like they're gonna be like, excuse you, like if you get, if you become author authoritarian, like right, like let's say, again, transformational leadership.

00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:25.759
I'm much more concerned about who you're becoming as a person, what you're you know, what you're growing into, your character, how that's being built.

00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:30.079
You know, I I used to teach that character is neither uh good nor bad.

00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.359
It's either uh developed or undeveloped.

00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:38.319
Like there are areas in your life that you have just never paid any attention to.

00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.319
Um, and you got to work that muscle.

00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:48.000
And so, you know, I'm always trying to find, you know, like what are the what are the character points in their life that I can help with.

00:25:48.240 --> 00:26:12.720
But and also, you know, there are I I would say one of the uh I wouldn't call it a weakness, but I think one of the one of the things that transformational leaders have to be well have to be very aware of is that because you are inspirational, motivational, you know, and you are rallying, you know, you can create energy in a room.

00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.039
You can create energy for for a vision.

00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:23.359
You know, there we're very vision focused and very future focused because I'm always thinking about your next step, right?

00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:43.039
You as a public figure, you are gonna be responsible not just for the character development of the team, but you are gonna have to consistently make sure that you in your own personal life are walking the walk that will help that will continue to help you be able to help others walk the walk.

00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:43.519
For sure.

00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:52.160
You know, I was like I was telling you, I was able to guide people through the life transitions that I myself went through and mastered, right?

00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:58.319
And then I, as a because I'm transformational, when I get to a point where I'm like, okay, I've mastered something.

00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:00.240
And then I'm like, man, I feel good about that.

00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:01.680
Immediately the people come.

00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:02.079
Yeah.

00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:03.440
Here come the people.

00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:15.839
When I mastered being a uh director of campus life, I switched jobs and now I'm overseeing people who are trying to learn what I had to develop through, right?

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:33.119
And because I think one of the biggest pieces of being a transformational leader is that I'm able, because I walk through it, I'm able to break it down in a way that gives you stepping stones for you to move forward into it versus just instructions.

00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:33.759
Yeah.

00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:35.599
And I think that's different.

00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:42.000
Um But even right now in my life, you know, Ruth, I've been telling you, I'm like, I don't really feel like much of a leader.

00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:42.240
Yeah.

00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:43.839
You know, I don't have a team.

00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:44.079
Yeah.

00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:49.440
You know, I'm out here in these streets, just task-oriented all day.

00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:54.799
Just, you know, I I have one grad intern, and and and without him, I wouldn't make it.

00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:02.720
Um, but I was telling him today, I was like, man, I'm just so glad we got so much done because I'm my my to-do list was so long, and I'm not used to that.

00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.480
Okay, I'm transformational.

00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:05.759
I want to inspire.

00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:09.680
Okay, I don't want to be sitting here with these to-do lists every day.

00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:09.920
Yeah.

00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:12.720
People want me, you know, people keep sending me forms.

00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.680
I'm like, that is like my worst nightmare.

00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:17.759
Stop sending me spreadsheets.

00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:18.319
Uh-huh.

00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.599
Stop sitting, stop.

00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:24.000
Don't tell me that I need to learn how to do something else on this computer.

00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:26.079
Get me away from this office.

00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.720
You know, I I do love, I love my team.

00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:29.440
I love what I do.

00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:30.960
Not my team, I'm a part of a team.

00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:32.319
Now I'm not over a team.

00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:38.160
But I I even from this conversation now, I realize that I'm in the process.

00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:40.880
You will your life will be cyclical, right?

00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:44.240
I'm in a process where it's like, hey, Jaquita, master this.

00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.119
Master this, and then the people will come.

00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:47.680
Right.

00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.920
And so you have to go through these uh quote unquote dry seasons.

00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.559
Yeah.

00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.359
Where it's just like, oh, okay, I'm learning now.

00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:58.319
Yeah, I think I think that's really good.

00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:07.519
You saying because it's so important for a transformational leader to go through the process before you lead others to it or through it.

00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.759
Like that, that's but that's part of it, right?

00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:20.000
And I think I think that is a really important uh point and an important thing that you have realized about your journey is like, hey, I I have to, there's a reason I'm going through this.

00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:27.279
I realize that when I get when I go through things, it's not just for me, it's for the people coming later, right?

00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:27.920
Behind this.

00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:30.960
And it makes you it makes you go through different things.

00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:32.160
It does, I bet it does.

00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:39.279
It causes you to go through differently because you realize one day I'm gonna have to teach somebody how to do this.

00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:39.920
Yep.

00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:48.079
You know, one day I'm gonna I'm gonna have to and I'm gonna have to be able to motivate them through through moments that I didn't feel motivated.

00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:59.839
And you know, I think that and I and I I think that's just something important for everyone in each of these leadership styles to to think back on is because there's something that you are.

00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.200
Experiencing that is part of leadership.

00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.599
Leadership is passing something along, passing something down.

00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.759
You know, you don't get to be a leader and hold all the nuggets to yourself.

00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:12.319
That's right.

00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:28.480
You know, if you are a leader that only pushes people to accomplish something, and and you don't, they don't leave saying, hey, my leader gave me this, versus my leader, uh, me and my leader just accomplished this, right?

00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:45.839
They need it from your example, whether it's from your example, whether it's from your wisdom, whether it's from, you know, whatever you've been able to share with them, you they need to be able to say, in a time where they're no longer in your presence, they need to be able to say, I left with something.

00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:46.319
Yeah.

00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.039
Yeah.

00:30:47.359 --> 00:31:10.240
And with that, I think that one of the other potential issues with um with transformational leadership because it's such a personal way of leading, there, there, there sometimes you can find yourself um uh having very um undefined boundaries.

00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:11.359
Right.

00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:18.319
Um, I think you have to be very clear on your your presence in people's lives.

00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.759
Um because the desire, I mean, I think it takes vulnerability to lead in this way.

00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:27.039
It takes a higher degree of vulnerability, if you will.

00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:33.359
I think it also it takes a higher degree of transparency and a higher degree of process, personal process.

00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.799
So people are kind of up close, right?

00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:44.480
It's it's a it's a very um discipleship oriented, you know, um kind of uh to me.

00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:46.559
That's kind of what I'm I'm liking it to.

00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:48.640
Like it's a discipleship-oriented leadership style.

00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:51.279
So you're up close and personal with people, right?

00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:56.319
Um, and I would say in the moments where I lean towards this style, because I do it sometimes.

00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:58.880
It's not my primary one, but I lean there sometimes.

00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.079
Um you lean through the whole spectrum.

00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:03.359
Well, you know what?

00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:04.480
You got to.

00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:04.799
Okay.

00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.880
Ruth said I'm an all-around leader.

00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:07.599
You got to.

00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:08.400
What do you want me to do?

00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:09.599
Well rounded.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:10.720
Whatever.

00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:16.000
Um, but I I do think that creating boundaries is going to be really important.

00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:16.240
Right.

00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:40.640
And recognizing, okay, when is when what what to share, what not to share about my process, what what to um, you know, how to relate right in a way that is still um in a way that's still going to um create the proper separation in our relationship.

00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:41.519
Right.

00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:49.759
Um, I think, I think those things can be, they can become I I find myself struggling with that to some degree.

00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:54.799
As you get more comfortable being vulnerable in general, yeah um, it can be it can be a little tricky.

00:32:54.880 --> 00:33:03.839
What do you do, do you have like uh methods that you use to um sure.

00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:26.319
I think one thing, as you were talking, I realized that I think one thing that a transformational leader could find themselves ensnared in is uh having preferences, like having preferred people that they lead on the team and creating an atmosphere where you have favorites.

00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:32.720
Yep, right, and sometimes those favorites are favorites because they actually listen, right?

00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:36.640
And they and they they respond well to your leadership style.

00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:38.400
And so you just like look at them go.

00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:41.680
Y'all see that baby go because he listened, all right?

00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:45.599
Because they took what I said, all right, and they're becoming, right?

00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.759
And I'm watching them becoming, and that energizes me, right, right, that excites me, right?

00:33:51.839 --> 00:34:06.559
And so I want to spend more time and more energy on this person that's catching on, and then sometimes you can create kind of like an a complete opposite effect with someone that's not catching on.

00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:07.039
Sure.

00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:17.280
And because maybe they don't respond as much to your inspirational, yeah, you know, and they're just like, all right, I was inspired, but you didn't give me any structure.

00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:17.920
Yeah, yeah.

00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:20.320
I was inspired, but there was no follow-through.

00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:20.719
Yeah.

00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:27.039
I I was inspired, but I I I don't I don't really uh I don't know what to do.

00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:31.199
Like you didn't give me any any a to-do list or you know what I'm saying?

00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:44.400
And so I think that uh yes, boundaries, like I've had to create, because boundaries keep you from exerting uh kind of the privilege of preference, right?

00:34:44.639 --> 00:35:01.840
Because all leaders, especially, I mean, and not just leaders, but parents, pastors, uh, you know, leaders just in teachers in classrooms, you know, like you if if somebody pulled you to the side and be like, I know you got a favorite, go hands up, who you favor?

00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:02.800
Everybody's got a favorite.

00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:05.039
Yeah.

00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:13.760
Because, and a lot of times, what we're what we're considering our favorite to be are what we also, what was that movie?

00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:21.599
Well, that was like, you know, it was, I can't remember what movie, but it was a parent talking to a child, and they were like, you know, you favored the other one.

00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:24.079
They was like, no, he was just easier.

00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:28.639
You are always dramatic and always mean and always da-da-da-da-da.

00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:41.119
You know, and we have to be mindful that we're not we're not allowing the people who seem easier to monopolize our time, our energy, and our resources.

00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:57.440
Um, and so I think some some good boundaries to put up is to make sure you are giving equal amounts of energy, effort, time, support, all of that to your team members.

00:35:57.599 --> 00:35:57.840
Yeah.

00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.519
Um, and creating atmospheres where everyone feels safe.

00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:02.000
Yeah.

00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:14.480
Um, and I also think for me, when I had my first, let's just call it my first team, um, when I first started working in campus life, um, you know, they were students.

00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:18.400
And so they were, they were students, but they were also my mentees.

00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:23.679
And at the time, I had just, I was just around, you know, early to mid 30s.

00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:25.360
So, you know, I was auntie.

00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.360
And it's so easy to create these really, really close bonds.

00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:31.280
Though they still mine to this day.

00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:32.960
Like, but you know what?

00:36:33.039 --> 00:36:41.360
I I made sure uh some ways that I kept myself accountable was that one, I made sure I spent time with my people.

00:36:41.599 --> 00:36:43.440
I was literally crazy.

00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:49.840
I was literally, I was about to say, you gotta know the difference between the them and your peers.

00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:50.880
They're not your peers.

00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:51.840
Yes, they're not your peers.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:52.880
They are not your peers.

00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:55.440
And that's now they are, I love them.

00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:55.920
Of course.

00:36:56.079 --> 00:37:00.079
Like my my entire heart loves them, right?

00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:06.960
But I I it it would be easy and for a while, because you know, I had them during the pandemic.

00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:13.119
And, you know, I live alone and we were going to work, and I told them, I was like, all right, work is gonna be a safe space.

00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:24.239
You know, we're gonna count this as a as a, you know, safe clouded space as long because they all were best friends, so they all were around each other all the time.

00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:27.840
And I was by myself, and my admin, it was just her and her husband.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:31.360
I was like, all right, as long as y'all, you know, don't go anywhere.

00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.519
Now, if you go somewhere, you know, let me know, and then you can just have a few days.

00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:39.119
I I'll give you your time, but don't come in here, you know, right?

00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:45.039
And so, but you know, it it caused us to really, really like dawn.

00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:46.480
Yeah, right.

00:37:46.559 --> 00:38:15.440
And so I had to make sure that I was being mindful to write, like not allow Jaquita to become enmeshed in only being mentor and you know, yeah, uh mother figure, you know, like you know, and and so I I created those boundaries by one, maintaining my life outside of work and outside of this these wonderful babies that I still love to this day.

00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.880
Also, I created community with their communities.

00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:20.079
That's good, right?

00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:23.360
And that I had the ability to do that with them, right?

00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:26.960
So their moms, I was not, this ain't a competition.

00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:30.480
I'm not, you know, like their moms were like, oh yeah, that's your college mom.

00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:32.639
And I was like, but this is your baby.

00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:42.000
Yeah, yeah, you know, this this baby is yours, and I'm not trying to monopolize them, which I think as a transformational leader is easy to do.

00:38:42.239 --> 00:39:03.599
I also think a boundary, ooh, a boundary that you as a transformational leader or as any type of leader, you have to be mindful of, is you have to know, you have to be ever mindful of what are the weak points in your life that you can use this situation to fill up.

00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:08.559
And you have to be mindful to create boundaries around your own weaknesses, right?

00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:15.039
So at the time, you know, early 30s, unmarried, pandemic, I was lonely.

00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:19.360
I'm like, you know, you know how people be like, you're not lonely, you're alone, you know.

00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.239
Yeah, no, you know, I was like, man, where the people at?

00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.440
You know, I ain't got I'm a very sociable person.

00:39:26.239 --> 00:39:33.119
I'm an extrovert, yeah, you know, and I needed people interaction, and they were hilarious.

00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:52.400
And you know, we had a great time, and I enjoyed my time with them, but I had to make sure there were moments where I was like, okay, Juita, create boundaries around you, uh, around your need because your need is becoming wrapped up in your leadership.

00:39:52.719 --> 00:39:58.719
And the moment you do that, you are going to start monopolizing the situation.

00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.719
You're gonna start uh twisting the situation so that it serves you.

00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:05.440
You know, you're gonna be like, hey guys, we're gonna have a game night.

00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:06.559
Yeah, yeah.

00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:08.559
You wanna hang out, you know?

00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:11.760
Yep, right, and and now you're overreaching.

00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:12.480
Yep.

00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:14.079
Now you're overreaching.

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:17.599
And so, and and you're gonna need to backpedal from that.

00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:19.760
Um, and so you have to be mindful of that.

00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:26.320
If you are a person that needs to feel important, and you know that that's something that that that runs in you, right?

00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:33.599
You gotta be mindful that you're not using the people that you serve to fill that void in your life.

00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.719
Man, look, that's man, that's so dangerous.

00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:39.840
You can't how do they say it?

00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:44.880
Uh you can't need the people you lead.

00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:47.039
But there's something, there's another way they say it.

00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.719
Um but yes, you can't need the people you lead.

00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:52.559
You can't you can't need them in that way.

00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:58.320
Um, I think I think another way to think about what you're saying is to stay mission focused.

00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:35.360
Like there's a mission as a leader, and if you stay focused on that and not focused on how, you know, kind of the things that you were just describing, how things are leading you, the weaknesses, the things that you're trying to, you know, the void you might be trying to fill, or be overly, uh, overly focused on um kind of people in the sense of because I I don't know, I think it's it can be it's it's gotta be frustrating if well let me say it has been frustrating to me, certainly, right?

00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:43.119
When you do pour and you don't see change, there is it's not being receptive, re receive, right?

00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:44.239
You don't you don't see that.

00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:49.360
And as opposed to allowing you to be frustrated, focus on the mission.

00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:54.000
So what what's the mission that you have as a transformational leader?

00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:54.960
What is that?

00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:06.000
And and I think the other the other thing is understanding and remembering no one is anyone's only one, right?

00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:08.800
That's the one right there.

00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:28.400
No one is anyone's only one, you are no one's only leader, and you are no one's only transformational leader, so the transformation that you may uh have with somebody else, you may get to a point, but you may not finish the process with them.

00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:35.840
Yeah, and so understand and be very clear on your mission as a transformation transformational leader in their life.

00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:46.639
And it may not become they may not become all that they can be with you, but it doesn't mean that you're not so like if you have somebody who's a little bit more resistant, it's okay.

00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:54.480
You're it doesn't mean that your leadership is not effective, it just means that it's trans transforming something differently in them than it is somebody else.

00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.880
It also means that you may not actually see it.

00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:01.679
Because I I truly believe like once people have been exposed to something, you can't be unexposed.

00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:03.440
Once you see something, you can't unsee it.

00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:14.880
So, you know, even for the people who have kind of come underneath your leadership and it doesn't, it feels like there was resistance or it feels like there was tension or it feels like there wasn't really much change.

00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.320
I don't believe that that's I believe change actually did happen.

00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:20.559
They just may not have wanted to acknowledge it.

00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:27.840
Listen, and that uh a couple of things you said, everything you said was great, but a couple of things.

00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:41.840
One, another thing I think that transformational leaders can and should do is build community with other leaders that can support your your your team.

00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:42.960
Yeah, uh-huh.

00:43:43.119 --> 00:43:44.000
Yes, absolutely.

00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:50.320
And I realized that mostly when I worked with my students, I had mostly male students that I was I was mentoring.

00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:55.039
And to this day, they they again they're mine, and they like we know that.

00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:56.960
Like everybody know that.

00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:00.400
But I was like, y'all need a guy.

00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:01.519
Yep, that's good.

00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:02.480
You know what I'm saying?

00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:07.039
Because I honestly sometimes I was just like, uh, get them a guy, you know.

00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.800
Um, y'all need a guy.

00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:26.719
And I also realized when I knew I was leaving um and that I was gonna be at a different school, uh, I I wanted them, I wanted them to have someone that would care for them like I cared for them and give them something different because everybody's not gonna get everything they need from me.

00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:28.159
No, and I recognize that.

00:44:28.239 --> 00:44:42.480
But here's the thing because I think another, I think another thing that transformational leaders are big on is the idea of respect because I hold you in such a high regard.

00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:43.280
Right?

00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:53.039
I I'm I'm constantly thinking about how wonderful you are and all of the great things that um that you have.

00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:58.639
Yeah, it is difficult when I feel disrespected or when I feel disregarded.

00:44:58.800 --> 00:44:59.119
Yeah.

00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:21.920
That becomes a high pain point because it's like I spend so much time seeing you and you don't see me, you know, and so I think uh for me as a leader, things that I've had to learn, I've had to learn how to hold hold people's quote unquote allegiance loosely.

00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:22.400
Yeah.

00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:23.199
Like, right?

00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:32.559
Like, like you don't have to, you don't have to, you don't have to, you know, allege your your you know, your followership to me, right?

00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.519
Like, but I know that there are moments, I know what I'm called to do in someone's life.

00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:40.480
I may not always know what I'm called to do for a mission.

00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:42.400
Now I am very mission-focused.

00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:43.599
Like I want to be great.

00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:49.760
I want us to go out there because I really believe that great people produce great results, right?

00:45:49.840 --> 00:46:03.199
And so all the work that I've been doing on my character, on our character as a team, and on each individual on the team, is gone, it ain't got no choice but to produce something amazing, you know.

00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:13.039
But but I am, I'm always like pushing for, you know, for people to be better and for people to get to their next spots.

00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:21.840
Um, and I think there's a lot of it, you know, I'm I I know that we're we're talking about me, but I think there's a lot of examples of transformational leadership.

00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:32.639
I think when, you know what I think would be good for everybody if you just think back in your mind, like who was my favorite teacher and why?

00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:38.719
And I think you might be able to relate them to one of these leadership styles.

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:39.440
Yeah.

00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:43.679
They may not all be transformational, but I think that would be a really good idea.

00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:46.159
Or who is your favorite leader?

00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:51.920
Like somebody whose leadership you really respect and really think well of.

00:46:52.079 --> 00:47:00.880
Um, because a lot of times, you know, and I think that that that could be the beginning of discovering what your pain point was.

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:16.239
You know, I I I really I think that this is important that as we're thinking about not just what type of leader we we are, but I think we have to move from leadership style to like to what is my mission, right?

00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:19.519
Because Ruth Abigail, you and I could have the same mission.

00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:25.599
Like we could both want to produce great people who do great things, you know.

00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:29.039
Like we could have the same mission, but we're gonna approach it completely differently.

00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:29.519
That's right.

00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:29.920
No, for sure.

00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:41.280
But I I think it I just think it's important um in your reflection, think about the people who have made a difference in your life, yeah, in your world, and what did you notice about them?

00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:42.800
What did you like about them?

00:47:43.440 --> 00:48:03.599
Um even as, you know, as I think about, you know, just leaders in general who have had just a great deal of impact um in the world, you know, like we talk, we've talked about MLK, you know, um, I I'm I'm real big on civil rights, you know.

00:48:03.679 --> 00:48:06.800
Like I just I don't know why I took so many civil rights classes.

00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:07.679
It just kind of happened.

00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:08.159
You did.

00:48:08.239 --> 00:48:08.559
You did.

00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:12.239
You know, I it just kind of happened and and I enjoy knowing that stuff.

00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:18.960
But when you think about people who have had national impact in the world, right?

00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:31.280
And and you think about, you know, people who we celebrate their speeches and their ability to really be able to motivate the country to move in a different direction.

00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:45.360
You know, I think like Abraham Lincoln, you know, like at a time where the world, the the country was torn on what to do on the issue of slavery, what to do on the issue of of difference, right?

00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:55.679
You know, I think that he is noted for his ability to use his voice to inspire and to motivate and to rebuild the character of the nation.

00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:56.000
Yeah.

00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:57.280
I think he was a catalyst.

00:48:57.360 --> 00:49:04.880
I don't think he did it all, but I think I think he was one of those catalysts, one of those moving points that helped to transition us.

00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:08.320
And I think that that's transformational leadership.

00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:22.400
It is oftentimes a catalyst um that helps to move an organization, a company, a country in in a uh in an inspired path forward.

00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:24.800
I think you're right.

00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:28.320
And I think that's honestly, I think that's it.

00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:29.519
Yeah.

00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:30.639
I think you ended it.

00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:37.440
Unless you asked, I because I I I don't want to I I think that was a good I think that was a good wrap-up of of because I agree.

00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:41.760
I think it's you're inspiring motivation forward.

00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:44.800
Like that's that's what it is, and but that starts from within.

00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:50.159
Like it doesn't start from yeah, the actual production of a thing, it starts from you.

00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:51.840
Starts from you.

00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:54.239
Yeah, I just thought of another weakness.

00:49:54.320 --> 00:50:06.639
I I can name weaknesses all day, yeah because I've I have lived this life, but you know, I remember I was working uh at an organization, I was about to call it, but I ain't.

00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:10.880
But I one of my favorite, one of my favorite co-workers, Penny.

00:50:11.119 --> 00:50:17.039
Um, and I remember I used to just, oh, I used to just compliment her so much because I loved Penny.

00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:18.320
I still love Penny.

00:50:18.400 --> 00:50:20.159
I I need to reconnect with Penny.

00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:27.039
Um I used to compliment her so much, and she would just, she looked at me and she said, You have a silver tongue.

00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:37.440
She said, You just have you have an ability to just say things in a way that just makes people feel good.

00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:43.519
But I also realized when she said it, I was like, I don't know that she trusts it now.

00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:44.079
Dang.

00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:51.440
Because maybe she thinks that like this is just I don't think she meant it in a bad way.

00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:52.159
Right.

00:50:52.400 --> 00:51:00.639
But I think she would but the way she said it, it stuck with me because I was like, oh, you know, because I'm complimentary, I'm always thinking about the good.

00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:10.880
I'm always, but if you start you, you can also anything that you do well can also be used in a way that's destructive.

00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:23.280
And you can become manipulative, you can become, you can start lauding people and inspiring people to do things because you think it's right and not because it's what's right.

00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:38.639
Um, you can become, if you get to a place where you are looking, where you are thinking more about how do I advance myself versus how do I advance the team, you will find yourself easily falling into manipulative behaviors.

00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:39.280
For sure.

00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:40.079
Oh Lord.

00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:56.719
And I think that that is something that as a person that anybody who is set over people and you are and you have that much of an impact that people come to you and say, Hey, you know, what what what do you see in me?

00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:58.159
How can I move forward?

00:51:58.320 --> 00:51:59.039
What do I need?

00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:07.519
Yeah and you are because they're not just letting you into their work person, they're letting you into into their own person, yeah.

00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:09.840
Into their whole person, right?

00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:15.280
And and you with uh great responsibility, right?

00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:20.159
With with great access comes great responsibility to whom much is given, much is required.

00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:25.360
You are going to have to focus on your own character development.

00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:25.920
For sure.

00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:28.239
Because you have to be a person of integrity.

00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:28.639
Yes.

00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:32.239
If you are not, you're gonna be one of them people that we watching in one of them.

00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:37.039
I really think, I mean, I promise you, I'm sitting here thinking about cult leaders.

00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.920
Like, that's how that's how PP Safety is.

00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:42.639
That's transformational leadership gone wrong.

00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:57.840
Like you, you, you have, you have, you have effectively captured the personhood of somebody so much so that they will follow you into death um based just based on your word, right?

00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:01.679
And it's like that's scary, but you're right that it because that is true.

00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:28.000
Um you we gotta be careful that that kind of influence you have on people because when you begin to uh it's uh when you be when you begin to influence people towards uh towards a self that they that they believe is a better self, then you do unlock a certain power that you have and influence you have with a person.

00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:36.639
And and and if you if you if that becomes a self-serving mechanism, it will destroy people.

00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:38.639
It will destroy people.

00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:42.960
And um, and I think that's it's something we have to be very and I love that I love the job.

00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:48.159
I'm glad you brought that up because it's something we as leaders have to be so careful about.

00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:50.559
You and that's why I'm sorry.

00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:53.679
Well, you don't realize I'm so mm mm, I'm sorry.

00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:57.440
No, no, you were in the mo you were in it, you were in it.

00:53:57.679 --> 00:53:58.000
Go ahead.

00:53:58.159 --> 00:53:59.519
No, okay, I I'm telling you this.

00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:06.559
It you don't realize even uh you your your voice in a in a moment, right?

00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:14.719
That's why that that's why I the one of the best advice I've heard as far as being a leader is always be the last person to speak.

00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:22.480
Don't ever be the first person in a room because it it doesn't really give other people room.

00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:25.199
Once because you you have a you you are who you are.

00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:26.320
People understand that.

00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:32.880
Um if you if you are the first person to speak all the time, you shut down the minds of people.

00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:34.320
And I have to learn, I have to learn this.

00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:50.960
This is something I've you know, I've had to really but you shut down other people's minds because they they have they look to you and you don't realize how and you could be the most humble servant person in the world, but at the end of the day, they understand the weight that your voice has.

00:54:51.199 --> 00:55:03.039
So if you if you are too are you if you are too overly focused on your own voice, then you will squash down the voices of others, and eventually they won't have anything to say.

00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:04.960
Yeah, yeah.

00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:10.480
Um and an image just came to mind, uh biblical image, if you will, with me.

00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:12.880
Uh go to the book of uh Exodus.

00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:25.920
Um and just thinking about Moses and how Moses had that rod, and when the Lord, right before he went to go speak to Pharaoh, the Lord was like, hey, put down your rod.

00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:36.159
You know, put down what you what what gives you power, yeah, what gives you strength, what what what is your thing, put it down, right?

00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:43.840
And I think that as leaders, one, you have to be willing to let people go, right?

00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:48.320
When it's time, when when when it's time to release them, release them.

00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:48.559
Yep.

00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:57.679
When they have found shelter and safety and and a covering with someone else, let them, right?

00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:04.079
And I think also you have to be willing to not be the most important person in the room.

00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:05.039
Man, look.

00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:09.519
Even when you outrank everybody else, come on, right?

00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:19.840
Just because I'm a transformational, and I think what really worked for me with my teams is that I allowed who they were to impact me as well.

00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:27.199
You know, I had one person, he, you know, he was on his stuff, he was organized, he was structured, he had his stuff together.

00:56:27.360 --> 00:56:29.039
I allowed that to impact me.

00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:30.000
Yeah, right.

00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:39.360
I had another person who was very process-oriented, could create a new process, a new structure, a new uh strategy in a minute.

00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:41.280
I allowed that to impact me.

00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:44.719
I had one who was really, really sensitive, right?

00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:46.880
And and and cared about people.

00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:56.480
And and not just cared about people like I want them to be better, cared about people's wellness and and and them feeling like they were in safe spaces.

00:56:56.639 --> 00:56:58.559
I allowed that to impact me, right?

00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:05.519
Just because you are the leader does not mean that your team does not add value to you as well.

00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:06.079
They should.

00:57:06.320 --> 00:57:16.320
And when we create these situations where it's a unilateral, you know, it only goes one way, you know, and nobody gets to feed up.

00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:19.519
That's why, that's why those teams end up breaking.

00:57:20.480 --> 00:57:22.880
And that's why, that's why vision gets lost.

00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:23.519
Yes.

00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:26.880
Um, because in the end, we all need each other.

00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:29.679
Every joint supplies, it's a circle.

00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:31.599
Leadership as a circle.

00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:32.639
Leadership is a circle.

00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:34.159
We need to put that on a shirt.

00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:37.280
Ah, that's that needs to go on a shirt.

00:57:37.440 --> 00:57:37.840
I like that.

00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:39.039
Leadership is a circle, man.

00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:40.239
Yeah, we'll edit that out.

00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:41.679
We don't need nobody to steal our idea.

00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:49.119
And back to the regular schedule program.

00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:59.360
Um, yeah, no, I I I think we we really do have to remember when it's uh like when it's my turn.

00:57:59.920 --> 00:58:04.079
Let's uh you like when it's and when when I influence, when you influence.

00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:09.599
We good great healthy leadership builds up leadership in other people.

00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:16.880
And um, and I think this this this leadership style is a is a great opportunity to do that, right?

00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:21.280
In the right moments, in the right season, it is gold, right?

00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:34.559
Um, and and and I think it's worth leaning into so that when other seasons come and you need people that are elevating at a higher level, you've done the work with them for them to be able to do that.

00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:39.039
Um and so I think that is I think that's really crucial.

00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:41.679
I love to see it.

00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:43.039
There you go.

00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:44.480
Now we're done.

00:58:44.559 --> 00:58:45.039
Now we're done.

00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:46.079
Hey friends, yeah.

00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:49.679
I you know, yeah, we want it ain't over till till we feel the peace.

00:58:49.760 --> 00:58:56.159
And I you know, I know Joy is like another nine minutes of content is what you felt.

00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:59.119
Um listen, okay.

00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:03.840
We want to thank y'all for rocking with us through all the leadership styles.

00:59:03.920 --> 00:59:05.280
I think we got a few more.

00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:06.719
Um two more.

00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:07.920
Two more two more.

00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:09.039
Three more two more.

00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:09.519
Two more.

00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:10.159
Two more.

00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:11.199
Two more.

00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:20.000
Um, but hopefully you've you found a lot of value and uh and hopefully, hopefully you have found home with something that we've said.

00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:21.920
Home.

00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:22.960
Home.

00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:24.400
Hopefully you have.

00:59:24.639 --> 00:59:26.880
And hopefully you've unlearned some things.

00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:30.559
Um, and uh we are all unlearning.

00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:36.400
And I'm sorry, producer Joy is throwing me off completely at whatever she's doing.

00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:40.559
It's it's doing the exact opposite of what she wants it to do.

00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:44.639
You know, I'm so confused.

00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:47.199
Neither Ruth nor I are good at sign language.

00:59:47.360 --> 00:59:47.519
No.

00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:48.880
Our reading lips.

00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:50.800
Sorry, you're gonna have to make it plain.

00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:55.840
But um, we again, uh, we we love you guys and we love doing this with you guys.

00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:58.639
And um, we will see you next week.

00:59:58.880 --> 00:59:59.840
But until then.

01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:04.400
We're gonna keep unlearning together so that we can experience more freedom.

01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:12.880
Thank you once again for listening to the Unlearned Podcast.

01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:17.199
We would love to hear your comments and your feedback about the episode.

01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:23.840
Feel free to follow us on Facebook and Instagram and to let us know what you think.

01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:30.320
We're looking forward to the next time when we are able to unlearn together to move forward towards freedom.

01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:31.280
See you then.